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Jason napsal @ 25. července 2007 v 04:54

Slyšel jsem, že cizinci, kteří sloužili v armádě na spojenecké země se nevyžaduje, aby sloužil v řecké armády. Nevíte, jestli je to pravda, a jestli někdo úspěšně preskoceny Řecké vojenské služby s dokladem o výkonu vojenské služby ve Spojených státech?

Kat napsal @ 25. července 2007 v 21:29

Jason - Athénská Novinky (v novinách) zprávy o tom, že 6 měsíců cla v ozbrojených silách z Kanady, Spojených států a zemí Evropské unie někoho osvobozuje od sloužících v řecké armády, nicméně jejich knihy říká něco jiného. To není překvapivé, protože jsem si vždycky našel chyby v jejich výzkumu za posledních 10 let.

Podle informaci jsem obdržel z vysoce postavených profesionální voják a oficiální literatuře jsem se ukázalo, předchozích vojenskou službu provádí pro spojenecké země s Řeckem není zcela osvobozeny od vás povinné řecké vojenské služby, je to pouze snižuje množství času, které potřebujete, aby sloužila , která končí až bude mezi 3-6 měsíců. Jsou doporučit konzultaci s řeckými konzulát ve své vlasti, nebo přímo s úředníkem vojenské zaměstnat osoby v Řecku o informace specifické pro váš případ, protože je závislé na několika faktorech.

PS V Aténách Aktuality také tvrdí, že žádné řecké mužské nemají řecký pas a řečtina ID jsou v nebezpečí, že budou vypracovány však mohu jméno nejméně dvě desítky lidí (australské, americké, kanadské), která byla navržena proti své vůli a ani mít řecké občanství, byli prostě řeckého původu. Mnoho z nich ještě nemá řeckých pasů podle výběru, i když některé z nich řecký identifikátory, které nyní žijí tady. Teda ne neúcta k Athénské Novinky, já jen chci, aby lidé pochopili, že jsem přišel přes mnohé rozpory, aby informace byly zaznamenány v mé vlastní výzkum real-život případů a oficiální dokumentace.

tina13 napsal @ 11. Srpen 2007 v 01:26

ahoj, mám jednu otázku, o řecké armády ... poslání, že se stav může být delší než 2 týdny? (Například mise na hranicích, nebo něco takového) a mohou mít mobil s nimi? (Pokud je možné je používat?) A mohou mít 3 dny volno, nebo tak něco? v jakých podmínek? děkuji ua hodně pro zodpovězení otázky, Tina

Kat napsal @ 11. srpna 2007 v 13:06

Tina, já nejsem jistý, proč jste dotazem, protože jste v Rumunsku, ale neexistují žádné definitivní odpovědi na pět otázek (ne jednu otázku), protože existuje příliš mnoho proměnných. To záleží na konkrétní vojenské větve, voják v hodnosti, místo, podmínky, zvláštní mise přidělena, odpovědnost, úroveň důvěrnosti, jednotky, veliteli jednotky, voják je dobré / špatné chování.

Pokud jste na kontrolu přítele, tím větší je otázka, "mám věřit jemu?"

Xenofón napsal @ 16. Březen 2008 v 07:03

Ahoj, Kat, díky za informativní stránky. Opravdu si toho vážím všech prací, které jste do něho!

Dvě otázky:

1) Už jste slyšeli o jakékoli cizí-rezidentských řeckých mužů, které jsme dostali dokonce sepisují s ΤΥΠΟΥ 'Β' certifikát (pro trvalý pobyt v zahraničí) a č. pobytu nad 6 měsíců v kalendářním roce, v Řecku? (tj. jsem zvědav, jak pravděpodobné je, i když prý mám "papíry v pořádku", že jsem bude vypracován v průběhu budoucí návštěvě [za 6 měsíců] do Řecka stejně?)

2) Víte, Řecko, zda má stále zákaz g @ ys v armádě? (tj. došlo k prezidentským dekretem před několika lety, že prý zakázaný g @ ys, ale viděl jsem rozporuplné informace o tom, zda se zákaz je stále v platnosti, protože branců 'pokusy o "akt g @ y", aby se dostal ven vojenské služby; I'ma mužským g @ y-tělo muže, který se opírá, a tak jsem si jistý, že bych, aby mi sloužil stejně!)

Souvislosti: I'ma řecko-Američan, který nedávno dostal zaznamenána jako řecký (přes americký konzulát), můj ΤΥΠΟΥ 'B' certifikát (i přes konzulát), a používají se pro svou první řecký pas (i přes konzulát, jsem čekání, až se vrátí hned). Nikdy jsem žil v Řecku (i když jsem byla na návštěvě moje rodina tam od dětství, zhruba každý druhý v létě a nyní se snažím navštívit alespoň dvakrát za rok). Moje matka a moji prarodiče z otcovy strany se narodil v Řecku, a všechny moje rodina je prý řeckého původu. Rozhodl jsem se mé tvrzení řecké občanství pro řecký pas, aby se ověřilo, mé právo na život / práce v EU, protože jsem steward a letecká společnost mi byla práce pro posádky základen v Německu a Velké Británii, s řeckým pasem, I by mohla být založena tam donekonečna. Takže, řecké občanství má velmi reálný a praktický přínos pro mě.

Xenofón napsal @ 16. Březen 2008 v 17:34

Do TYPOU B ', které v poslední odstavec mého předchozího komentář, já samozřejmě znamenalo ΤΥΠΟΥ Β'. Α σιμπλε ερρορ způsobené přepínání mezi řecké a anglické klávesnice ανδ λαζυ προοφρεαδινγ.
BTW, Kat, jen z vlastní zkušenosti, jsem chtěl upozornit, že vaše časté rozdíl mezi řecké občanství a řeckého původu nezdála se věci vůbec v mém případě. Když Ι mám osvědčení o registraci (πιστοποιητικό εγγραφής) z mého místní radnice v Řecku (v lednu 2008 poté, co americký konzulát zaznamenána moje narození zpět do září 2007), tajemníka byl pochopitelně kladen na mé potvrzení, že jsem řecké národnosti, ale dříve také poznamenat, že můj otec je řecké národnosti, taky (na mé rodiče 'πιστοποιητικό οικογενειακής κατάστασης, kterou jsem dostal v květnu 2007), i když můj otec a jeho rodiče nikdy zaznamenán jeho řecké národnosti a on se narodil a žil všechny jeho život v USA, stejně jako já. Jedinou oficiálně "řecké" akt táta nikdy udělat, bylo vzít mou matkou v Řecku, ale jinak byl zaznamenán nikde v řecké záznamů. Tak, tak, že výstřednost a zjevné nesrovnalosti ve snadnosti zápis projeveno znovu.

V mém případě se zdá, že to bylo super jednoduché a že Chicago konzulátu bylo také velmi příjemné na mě (ačkoli konzulární úřad na velvyslanectví v DC byla vnímána jako jeden nádech hrubí by moje sestra). Moje rodina pochází z ostrova poblíž Turecka s velmi velkou posádka ... takže možná, že mě viděl v Chicagu konzulát ... více svalové hmoty než průměrná Řecké male ... a myslel: "podepsat ho pro vojenské účely, okamžitě!" Proto si v této, dnes jsem některé paranoidní obavy, že jsou vypracovány, i když můj "papíry jsou v pořádku" a neplánujete strávit více než 6 měsíců v Řecku v průběhu jednoho kalendářního roku.

Těším se na vaše reakce na mé dva předchozí dotazy, a díky za úžasné stránky!

Poznámka od Kat: X Ahoj, já se na rozdíl mezi původu a občanství proto, že někteří čtenáři se domnívají, že pokud nemají občanství, nejsou povinni sloužit. To je špatně. Vše je třeba je řeckého původu. S odkazem na Váš původní komentář, vím, že odpověď na Vaši první otázku, ale je třeba se výzkumu druhou. I'll zveřejnit vaše otázky společně s mojí odpovědi, když připraveni. Děkuji a filakia polla

Greg v Astoria, NY napsal @ 23. březen 2008 v 21:43

Děkuji za tuto informaci. Chtěl bych, aby se vyjádřili k oddílu řecké společnosti a armády. Jsem třicet devět let a syn řeckých přistěhovalců se narodil a vyrůstal v USA, z jaké jsem slyšel, že v minulosti někteří Řekové konají doznívající zášť a nedůvěru, protože vojenská junta se. Návrat v roce 1988, v Mytilini, jsem se podílela na úvodní zasedání letní studium v zahraničí, program na univerzitě v Egejském moři pro zahraniční studenty, kteří byli college řeckého původu. Jeden z našich exkurze přinesla návštěva řecké vojenské základny a výlet na palubě řecké bojových lodí. Pamatuju si jeden z profesorů řekl (mimo doslech jakékoli osoby, samozřejmě), aby malá skupinka z nás, že studenti exkurzi bylo pozoruhodné, že v řecké akademické obce byl (ještě v té době) poněkud obávající se, že řecké armády.

Rob napsal @ 24. duben 2008 v 12:58

Velmi informativní fóru. Také jsem nyní nalezl jsem v dilematu nakládání s výzvou, aby služby v Řecku.

Jsem 25 letý kanadský s řeckými matku, a žili v Řecku a Kanadě od roku 1992 až do současnosti. Se mi podařilo vyhnout se dostat řecké občanství v minulosti, tak jsem would'nt mají jít do armády, ale teď už to mám, tak jsem mohl zůstat v zemi po dobu delší než 3 měsíce vízum restriction.Mostly kvůli rodinné povinnosti.

Dostal jsem můj Taftotita a byl napsán v náboru úřadu před pár dny. Podívala jsem se na získání osvědčení o trvalý pobyt v zahraničí, ale mám strach, nebudu vyplnit všechny požadavky. Já bych nerad být návrh ulejvák ale nechci, aby sloužila v Řecku. Byl jsem skutečně naději na vstup do kanadské armády v kariéře a would'nt paměti, probíhající v místě řecké služby.

Ví někdo, pokud je to možné a jak bych mohl jít o získání souhlasu? Ověřil jsem si, a uskakování řecké předlohy by vrak moje šance na účast v Kanadě, tak jsem reqired sloužit někde jinde. Jakékoliv myšlenky? Díky.

Kat napsal @ 30. dubna 2008 v 22:27

X - I nezapomínal na vás.
1) Odpověď na první otázku je: "Ne," jsem neslyšel nikoho z připravovaného návrhu, kdyby se s trvalým pobytem v zahraničí osvědčení a zůstal za 6 měsíců.
2) V odpovědi na druhou se tam byl zákaz g @ ys v armádě, ale byla zrušena před několika lety se o změnu z toho, co jsem určí hledá staatscourant publikací. Proč? Spousta lidí se uplatňující tuto výjimku a weren'tg @ y, a už by opravdu neexistoval způsob, jak někdo může dokázat, že jsou nebo nejsou. A hodně "zpravodajství" agentury chrlit starého materiálu bez nezávislé kontroly jejich fakta a říct, že je stále zákaz - neexistuje. Vše o mé g @ y přátelé sloužili, a to byla pravda, v posledních 4-5 let.

G - Díky za vaše komentáře, které cítím přidáno něco jiného, zajímavá a přínosná diskuse. Doufám, že budete zastavit znovu. PS jsem žil v Astoria za 2 roky v blízkosti Athens Cafe. Smyslu byla zpátky, ale ještě ne.

R - Ahoj znovu! Pamatuji si vás. Jste vysláni na překročil víza článek a požádala o občanství. To je choulostivé situaci. Bez dělá rozsáhlý výzkum (které nemůžu teď), pak by neměl automaticky počítat sami ze stálých zahraničních rezidentských certifikát, protože závisí na tom, kolik let jste strávil v zahraničí, a jak jsi starý. Ale tady je to věc, i kdyby jste měli potvrzení, že byste porušil své termíny již proto, že jste zde pro více než 6 měsíců. Až budete mít potvrzení, že jste souhlasil s strávit méně než 6 měsíců do 12-měsíční období v Řecku. Když projdou poloviny-cesta známky, jste ohlásila, že tráví většinu svého času v Řecku, a proto se nejedná o trvalý pobyt v zahraničí, v Kanadě.

John Tsiolis napsal @ 19. květen 2008 v 12:06

Co přesně znamená trvalý zámoří Rezidenti slouľící "3-6 měsíce"? Jakto, že jsem převýšení najdete informace o tom, jak přesně dlouho diaspoře řecký by sloužit?

Poznámka od Kat: Nemám ponětí, co máte na mysli - na celý článek se zabývá řecké diaspory. Je zde i specializované sekci s názvem "Občané krajany žijící v zahraničí." Jestliže samce má řecké občanství a "osobou s trvalým pobytem v zahraničí," certifikát, ten slouží 3-6 měsíců. Přesnou délku doby je závislá na několika faktorech, a stanoví případ-by-case bázi. Poraďte se s náborem úřadu nebo řecký konzulát o vašem konkrétním případě.

R napsal @ 3. červen 2008 v 16:58

Díky za dostává zpět ke mně. I was'nt schopni získat stálé zahraniční rezidentských osvědčení z důvodů uvedených vás. Pokud jde o řeckého velvyslanectví v Kanadě a na nábor úřadu v Řecku se týče, já musím sloužit jako každý jiný. Uvidíme se domluvíme advokáta hned vidět, co se dá dělat, ale moje možnosti jsou štíhlé.

I have'nt rozhodl, co dělat, ale přesto jsem trochu zklamán, s celou situation.There opravdu třeba některé další možnosti pro lidi, ne narodil v Řecku a kteří nemají v úmyslu v nich žijí. I když lze pochopit koncept pro lidi, kteří žijí v této zemi, jsem prostě nemůže ospravedlnit sám slouží v zahraničních vojenských, v jazyce, nemůžu ani psát, sám (Kanada) dolaru, v místě, nikdy jsem v úmyslu udělat víc, než přišel, a utrácet peníze jako návštěvník. Celá věc se zdá být trochu dozadu (překvapení!). Možná by se měli pokusit Řecko s profesionální armády, kde se lidé slušně placené a mají výhody, pak možná budou mít více dobrovolníků.

Takže, sorry za řečnění. Kat, oceňuji době jste strávil zodpovězení mé otázky. I'll post, pokud něco změní. Díky, R

Kat napsal @ 6. června 2008 v 01:42

Řecko má divize profesionálních vojáků, a to docela slušně placené. Můj přítel je CK umístěných v Samos a je nyní vysoce postaveným důstojníkem s velkorysým plat, dny a přiměřené povinnosti.

I sympatizujeme s vámi a mnoho dalších ve vaší situaci, ale prosím pochopit, že existuje celá řada, kteří se nemohou dostat do Řecka nebo EU žádné právní prostředky. Bohužel, jediné, co lze udělat, je možné přiřadit někde hezké a pohodlné, pokud máte připojení. Můj přítel V sloužil na malém ostrově v blízkosti jeho domu ve mail kluk a měl víkendu volno. Jeho ukazovalo jako vítr.

Neváhejte chvástavost všechny chcete. Byla to radost seznámení se Vám a děkujeme za sdílení vašich příběhů.

Xenofón napsal @ 25. červen 2008 v 23:51

Kat, Myslel jsem, že váš výzkum v rámci staatscourant Publikace odhalil přesně kdy zákaz g @ ys (ve vojenství) byl zrušen? Nepochybuji o tom své dovednosti jako vědec či spisovatel a já si opravdu vážíme všech prací máte uvedeno do této stránce. Díky za odpovědi!

Doufám, že vám nebude horší, ale já mám pochyby, pokud jde o odpověď na vaši otázku týkající se zákazu. Dovolte mi vysvětlit, proč. Část vaší odpovědi na mou otázku uvádí, "neexistuje [zákaz g @ ys už]. Vše o mé g @ y přátelé sloužili, a to byla pravda, v posledních 4-5 let. "

Ale, jak pozdní jak března 2006, EOK (Ελληνική Ομοφυλοφιλική Κοινότητα se Athény-založené g @ y práv skupiny) byl "náročný konec čemu hovoru [ed] a 'fašista' nařízení zakazující g @ yys z vojenských" podle až v následujícím článku na adrese: http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/03/032906military.htm

Tak jsem přemýšlel, pokud zákaz skutečně bylo zrušeno pouze v posledních 2 letech, spíše než 4-5 lety jako znamenat, nebo snad dokonce zákaz nebyl zrušen vůbec, a že je prostě stav nekonzistentním výkon (co?? ... nekonzistentním uplatňování politiky v Řecku?? ... překvapení ... překvapení!), což může být technicky i nadále v platnosti (opět to byl prezidentský dekret, který v roce 2002 a údajně nedávno zavedl zákaz g @ ys)?

Ne že by novináři nebo Wikipedii jsou bez chyb buď, ale také stále Wikipedia Řecko identifikuje jako jeden ze států, které zakazuje g @ ys od své vojenské taky, v několika Widipedia na články.

Takže, když v souladu s staatscourant, byl zákaz zrušen?

V dalších novinek, dostal jsem svou první řecký pas v květnu (i když po mé fotografie byly zamítnuty jednou špatné osvětlení), a kdysi jsem ji o vízum-zdarma návštěvě Rio de Janeiro, Brazílie, na počátku tohoto měsíce, v červnu! (Američané požadují turistické vízum jít do Brazílie, Řekové nejsou)

Poznámka od Kat: Ty jsou zdarma k otázce a pochybností mě. I don't mind.

V GG změnu jsem od roku 2002 byl přeložen do jazyka, že "duševní porucha $ exual identity není osvobozen." Když je psáno, je prý v platnost. Viděl jsem Wikipedia, ale nikdy jsem spoléhat na to, pokud existují zdroje uvedené na dně, které jsou legitimní a ověřitelné - Neviděl jsem žádné. Dokonce i když se pokusíte vyhledat kolik zemí zákaz g @ ys, že se značně liší podle zdroje a někdy Řecku je uveden a někdy to není. Také jsem viděl řadu článků napsaných v angličtině a řečtině by g @ y práva skupiny, ale mnoho z nich jsou vyvrhoval text z článků a články zveřejněné diskutabilní zpravodajské zdroje, které nebyly nezávisle ověřit fakta.

Podobně jako mnoho věcí v GR, že trvá určitý čas, za obcí, konzuláty / velvyslanectví a úřední subjekty, které mají být informován, a to i déle, než zákonem, který se má vykonat (pokud vůbec). Jedinou konzistence nevím, je to povinen být v rozporu ( ). Nicméně, Rázná a novou osvobození začala v roce 2006 bez ohledu na slávu, vím to, protože můj snoubenec přítelkyně byla požádána, aby poskytla nové důkazy o zdravotnickém osvobození tvrdil 7 lety na krátké lhůtě. Pokud si novou výjimky ve snaze dostat teplé subjektů do armády, to nemá smysl, aby zákaz-teplé tělesně g @ ys.

I na druhé straně, nemají žádný návrh Dodgers v mém životě. Všichni moji přátelé, g @ y a rovně, sloužili svého času. Mnozí z nich v posledních 4-5 letech, a všechny byly z šatníku. Těch, kteří zůstali ve skříni samozřejmě sloužila bez protestu.

Když jsem zkoumal to, udělal jsem to v obou GR a EN a skutečně došlo k nedostatku informací legitimní. Ale to nebylo překvapení mi dána non-transparentnosti této země. If someone has different info and can provide me with documentation contrary to what I found, I’m happy to amend this article and my comments accordingly.

I’m glad you’re enjoying your passport!

Xenophon wrote @ June 26th, 2008 at 07:11

Cool. I believe you. Thanks again. I’m considering serving as a “foreign permanent resident”, once I save up enough money to cover my bills/mortgage for 3-6 months (probably for 6, just to be safe), plus I’ll have to get a “military leave of absence” from work so that I don’t lose my job. But I think my airline is required by my labor contract to give me a military leave, so long as I have proof of my military orders; I imagine my recruiting office in Greece would give me a proof/letter of some sort, if I ask for one. I had back surgery for a ruptured disc about 3 years ago, but I hope that will not necessarily disqualify me, as I pretty much can function normally, with some precautions taken.

Note from Kat: It’s totally OK if you don’t believe me. I don’t claim to know everything about Greece, especially the behind-the-scenes workings of its system. I welcome anyone who has better or additional information.

Sebastian wrote @ July 8th, 2008 at 19:26

Dear Kat,

I just discovered your site and am amazed by the exhaustive nature of your research. Thank you for such a valuable research. I added you to my favourite on Technorati and also reviewed your site on StumbleUpon. I hope anyone who needs some answers can find your work here.

I just had a few comments I wanted to add for the benefit of any future readers. For comparison purposes, here is my situation.

I was born in Greece two Greek parents and was brought to the US when I was hardly one year old. I lived here until the age of eight, at which time I returned to Greece and lived there for five years. At the age of thirteen, I returned to the United States. Since my return, I have visited Greece exactly once, in the fall of 2005, and stayed for three months.

At sixteen, I became a naturalized American citizen.

I have servied in the United States military for over a year.

Some time ago, I decided I wanted to live and work in Germany, and explored the option of moving there under a Greek passport. When I contacted the Greek consulate in New York, I came upon the military service barrier.

While I have the perfect right to a Greek passport, I cannot receive one until I’ve fulfilled my military duty. Because I was about to visit Germany for an extended stay, the man at the consulate was kind enough to give me a Greek passport which was valid for exactly one year.

“According the information I received from a professional high ranking soldier and official literature I was shown, previous military service done for a country allied with Greece does not totally exempt you from mandatory Greek military service, it only reduces the amount of time you need to serve, which ends up being between 3-6 months.”

This matches my experience. Having served in the American military does not exempt me from Greek military service, though it does significantly cut down my time; anywhere from three to six months.

“The Athens News also claims that any Greek male NOT in possession of a Greek passport and Greek ID are in no danger of being drafted, however I can name at least two dozen people (Australian, American, Canadian) who were drafted against their will and didn’t even have Greek citizenship; they were simply of Greek origin.”

When I last visited Greece in 2005, I entered with the American passport. I received a brief comment from the guy (”Ah, you were born here, eh?”) and that was all. I guess some Greeks find it interesting when they see an “Αμερικανάκι.”

I had no surprise visits while staying there. I even went to the police precinct to inquire about getting a Greek ID. I was rather paranoid I’d be “arrested” and thrown into the Army immediately, but those fears proved entirely unfounded. I simply explained my situation to the people there and they repeated what I had heard at the Greek consulate in New York: I must complete military service before I can apply for a national ID.

Now, what I have “heard” as far as stays in Greece are concerned, is that I can remain in the country for three months before I encounter any complications due to the military service. I have also “heard” that some people who stayed longer than that either had trouble at the airport when trying to exit the country or, worse yet, were even prevented from leaving and made to serve.

Because receiving definitive information concerning such things when one is dealing with the Greek system, I have not visited since and do not plan to, even though my girlfriend has been poking me to take her to Greece for a year now.

Oh, and here is a piece of anecdotal evidence which I found rather interesting.

I do not remember with whom exactly I had this exchange, but I dstinctly recall that while I was in Athens that fall of 2005, I was speaking with some official (it could have been someone at the prectinct when i visited, or it could have been when I was at the airport on my way back to the US) and this person expressed surprise that no one “told me anything” regarding military service when I was entering the country. This, of course, implies, there is some kind of official “procedure” for people like me (ie an American born in Greece) but, like I said, I had no experience of the sort.

“Many non-EU citizens of Greek origin claim their right to Greek citizenship, then live and work in another EU country, where the threat of being drafted by the Greek military is removed.”

This certainly sounds like a viable option, though I unfortunatley can’t take advantage of it, since in order to receive a passport I must have served already. I can’t imagine who would be able to do that.

In any event, there might be some light at the end of the tunnel for anyone in my situation:

“The armed forces aims to be a completely professional military system, with mandatory military service reduced to 6 months or abolished completely by 2008. ”

My mother, who is more in touch with these happenings through her Greek friends than I am, had mentioned something similar. I had taken it as a rumour, but who knows. Perhaps by the time I am done with my studies here in New York, mandatory service will have been done away with once and for all.

These, then, have been my experiences. I hope someone finds them useful.

Sebastian

Nikos wrote @ July 9th, 2008 at 12:33

Regarding the service of g@ys in the military, I think that the Armed Forces are generally reluctant about recruiting g@y men. Even if they decide to keep you, you can still make a case for an exemption based on factors such as viability (an openly g@y man between an overwhelmingly hom0phobic community). If the army is not cooperative the ombudsman has supported minorities in the past.

Nick wrote @ July 23rd, 2008 at 21:47

Hello, i really enjoy your site. I am a Greek who was raised among foreigners in Greece and i find your take on Greece very honest. A little too honest for Greek standards maybe.

I just wanted to note that just like most other aspects of Greek law, the military service is a “rule” which can be bend or broken.

You mentioned connections and they are a good example of bending.

I have been performing research of my own because i will be drafted in a couple of years and i want to avoid it. I believe that it is quite possible to remain in a state of limbo by simply not going to the army and becoming “anypokatkos”. The police cannot really arrest you or force you to go in case you are accidentally discovered in a random check or if you ever have to go to a police dpt.

If you have a job that doesn’t require a certificate that you finished your tour or you are working as a freelance you may never have to go to the army.

It may be a good option for some people.

Kat wrote @ July 26th, 2008 at 13:53

Sebastian - Hi there and thank you for contributing a great deal to this discussion. As a follow-up to a few items you mentioned:

a) Yes, most people I know who stay for under 90 days don’t have any issues. There are people I know who stay for over 90 days and do absolutely have an issue, and I know a few who were prevented from leaving by airport authorities.

There are cases where only certain Greek males can stay for 30 days, which is the reason I encourage everyone to make a phone call to the Greek Consulate or consult the Greek military recruiting office for their specific case. Not everyone is the same, as it depends on citizenship, length of residence inside Greece or another country, parents’ citizenship and residence status, etc.

b) I’ve never heard of any official procedure of border authorities informing males of Greek origin of anything. Ela vre, it’s Greece. Even if they were required, it’s not guaranteed that everyone would do it. I always assume that everyone is responsible for himself.

c) I do know dual Greek citizenship holders who somehow got a Greek passport without serving in the army (NO connections, no lawyers) and they are working in another EU country with no problem. They either got a certificate, got lucky, or it’s just Greece…too many variables.

Nikos - That’sa good point. For anyone interested, you can always volunteer yourself, state your $exual orientation and see if they take you or not. If they draft you and believe you stand a chance to exempt yourself, try the Ombudsman. You can find his information at, “ Greek Ombudsman .”

Nick - Thank you for your compliment, and also for your comments. Since I will never serve myself and every male I know has done his time (freelance, g@y/straight, business owner, etc.) I always appreciate input from people who have done research and take the time to share it with others, as it might benefit someone.

Sebastian wrote @ July 28th, 2008 at 04:15

Dear Kat,

In reference to c), if you do find out anything relevant, I’d be very grateful if you did let me know. I am also keeping my eyes peeled to your website for any reference to the law change regarding mandatory active duty.

Along that same topic:

What’s funny is I checked the Wikipedia entry on conscription in Greece when I first discovered your site a few weeks ago, and in the very first paragraph was made mention of there being a possible doing away with mandatory military service. Apparently, the Greek government intends to move toward a fully professional military. However, the article went on to state, it is likely any changes would be delayed due to the general state of world affairs at the moment.

And now, wouldn’t you know it, I am looking at this same article and it has been updated to read, “As of 2008, Greece (Hellenic Republic) has mandatory military service…”

Kat wrote @ July 29th, 2008 at 17:35

S - No problem about (c). Articles are always updated with the latest news, and you can find the revision date at the bottom of the article. Wiki is fine for general info, but I don’t consider it a legitimate source. Greece has considered abolishing mandatory obligations and drafting women a number of times over the years, but has instead lowered the requirement. Many people feel it will never go away because of history, tradition and unwillingness on the part of citizens to serve professionally and unwillingness by the government to decently pay those who do.

vasilios wrote @ July 31st, 2008 at 02:19

Great content with the updates thanks much as always kat, you are a personal hero to many of us looking to garnish critical insight into the socio-bureaucratic anamoly that is, Greece.

Unfortunately Im still having trouble comprehending military service time. more specfically the fluxation in service that seems to exist. Im currently 24 years of age and recently finished my BA in the States and plan on moving back and becoming a naturalized Greek citizen in the process and also have a father who is 70+. From what I’ve read and taken from the above article and subsequent comments my time will range from a minimum of 3 to 6 months ?

I recently watched a show catered to the diaspora on ERT (subsidized and operated by the govt) that claimed military service for naturalized Greeks was to only last 3 months……Can anyone fill my in on this personal limbo ? The consulate in Los Angeles refuses to talk to me until August the 4th concerning any citizenship questions (!) because the ‘αρμοδιος’ wont be in till then !

Some things will never change (η ελληνικη κουλτουρα)

Note from Kat: I always say, panta einai etsi. The reason I encourage people to consult directly with the Consulate or Greek recruiting office is because each case is different. Naturalization is just one part of the equation; it also depends on the length of your residence outside GR, the length of residence and citizenship of your parents, if you have legitimate exemptions, etc. etc. It’s impossible cover all bases when the length of service varies and is customized to your specific case. I say 3-6 months because a number of sources have stated this as a general estimate.

Jennifer wrote @ August 11th, 2008 at 10:21

hey kat,
A friend of mine had to leave Australia and join the army in Greece. I have no idea how long he would have to serve - do you have any idea about the length of time? I’ma little worried - what do they actually do when they are stuck fulfilling national service?

Rin wrote @ August 12th, 2008 at 23:49

So much information, thank you.
I’m hoping it’s okay if I ask a few questions. My long-distance boyfriend has recently decided to serve, and I was wondering if the training schedule would differ very much because he is choosing to enlist, not being conscripted. He says he will be gone for one year, and from what I have read, it seems most of that would be training. Have I misunderstood, or is it different when you sign up for it?
Also, do you know how communication with family/friends works? Do those who serve in the military have the opportunity to send and receive letters, or even e-mail?
Last question(s), I promise! A person’s own skills and abilities, would they influence the area of the military that one would serve, either by choice or simply being placed in that area? For instance, my boyfriend has a degree in PC tech, so is it likely he would be doing computer work?
Thank you very much, again, for all this information. It is very much appreciated, as are any replies to my questions.

Lana wrote @ August 14th, 2008 at 01:49

great info on Greek military! Do you know what happened to that legislation on expanding participation of women? i am doing a research on women in NATO military and Greece is definitely not one of the champs in this area. But do you know if anything is changing? Thanks a lot,
Greetings from NYC

Vasileios wrote @ August 14th, 2008 at 02:31

Reply to Rin.

I am a greek citizen who had to serve to “glorious” greek army 4 years ago during the Athens Olympic Games. Currently I live and work in the US, but during my military service I had to depart from my american fiance back then for a little bit over a year, so allow me to have my input to your case scenario since I experienced it sometime ago.

First of all during the first month during basic training things are pretty tough, as they will not allow the use of cell phones as much as later on. Communication during that period of time can occur every day (if you can afford it) but for only a few minutes. Get prepared to hear a lot of bitching about the military environment from your loving one.

Then after the first 30-35 days he will be transfered to a base most probbaly near the greek-turkish borders. If he is lucky enough he will be sent to a greek Island like I did, but still that depends. Unfortunately that’s when really good connections are required. I was luckily placed at a military base in Lesbos, where I had the option of coming closer to my hometown 6 months later.

Despite that I decided to stay in Lesbos throughout my entire military service because the greek army gives you extra days off when you serve the army close to the borders. Those days proved to be more than usefule when I was able to take almost 25 days off towards the end to see my wife when she was going to visit me.

I was thinking about getting a special permit to come and visit her here in the US during that period of time, but the bureaucracy was way over what I could handle at the time so we decided here to come and see me. I can tell you that it’s extremely tough going through a relationship when being in the army, but it takes two to keep it together and only one to break it apart.

If I were to be asked to go again, I would probably go for no more than a month though. It was a boring at times yet hilarious environment ( as long as you have the same kind of people serving with you). For the most part I have great memories and usually get emotional when I go through some of the pictures during my military sevice.

The greek army is a small society which encompasses all the good and bad characteristics of the greek society in a restricted and highly conservative environment, which was the major factor that made me decide to stay or leave Greece at the time. Up till this day I am absolutely sure I made the right decision (don’t ever regret my decisions good or bad anyway).

Best of luck to you and your loving one.

Kat wrote @ August 14th, 2008 at 07:50

J - As I said in the post and in comments to several other people, the normal time of service is 1 year (now 9 months, as of January 1, 2009). However, there are exceptions and exemptions that can shorten the length of service that depend on many factors, such as citizenship, place of birth and length of permanent residence of both the Greek male and his parents; whether he has the certificate of permanent resident abroad; medical and mental conditions; how many children are in the family, etc. (all of these things are already listed in my article).

If you or he are worried, you must consult the Consulate or Embassy of Greece in your homeland or any Greek recruiting office in Greece. I am not a representative of the Greek government or the Greek military.

R - a) Whether you voluntarily enlist (which most are expected to do) or forcibly enlisted, it doesn’t matter. No one gets a “discount” for doing the right thing.
b) What I say in the article is training lasts for up to 13 weeks, then he’s assigned a regular army unit, so I’m not sure what you mean by “most of the time” since 13 weeks of 1 year (now 9 months, as of January 1, 2009) isn’t much.
c) Communication depends on where he is assigned, what privileges he has, the temperament of his unit leader. But yes, mail is allowed; sending mail to his house is logical since he’s allowed to go home on a fairly regular basis during the year; mail at the camp is possible after training is over and he’s assigned to a stable unit. E-mail is possible anytime he’s outside the camp; I know few if any units that have free computer access, as some places are in the middle of nowhere. It’s the military for gosh sakes, not a social network. He can receive sms, phone calls and make calls just fine anytime during his 1 year; he just may not have privacy and there may be on-duty hours during which he cannot.
d) Unless he has an inside connection with someone who can place him with a certain unit or volunteers for a specialized unit in which there is a shortage (ie medical), he is treated like anyone else.

Based on the experiences of girls (in and outside of Greece) who had relationships with men in the Greek military, they caution: ‘don’t send him money’ and ‘don’t send racy photos.’ In the majority of cases, they never got back their money, the photos got passed around the camp, and the relationship (coincidentally or not) ended as soon as he got out.

L - Articles are always updated to reflect the latest, with the date posted at the bottom. However, comments are not changed and therefore reflect whatever laws were in effect at the time of posting.

Sakis wrote @ August 16th, 2008 at 04:42

Hi there,

This site has some good information for people entering the military. I am not sure if my case has been mentioned in the past, but if anyone can help i’d really appreciate it.

I’m 33 yo I live in Sydney Australia. my parents were born in Greece. I am a teacher in Sydney and I am interested in living in Greece. It has always been my dream to do this and have accepted the challenges that lay ahead. I want to run a business in Greece so i am assuming that although i have tertiary qualifications and interested in running a business i still have to serve the military regrdless. Is this correct?

Is there such a thing as a working visa?

Does anyone know anyone that has served the military based in Athens rather than the country’s borders like Lesvos?

If i claim my Greek is very poor will they take this into consideration in deciding where to send me?

There are sooo many more questions i’ll stick to these for now!!

Thanks!

Kat wrote @ August 16th, 2008 at 10:19

S - Nearly all of these men posting comments are similar to you, and your questions are already answered in this article above and its comments, or articles listed on the front page.
“ Acquiring Greek citizenship by claim of Greek origin ”
“ How a non-EU citizen can move, live and work in Greece ”
“ Greek residence/work permits FAQ ”
“ How to start a business in Greece ”

1. Yes. You’re of Greek descent and between the ages of 19-45 (1st sentence of this article)
2. Yes, but you don’t qualify because you’re of Greek origin. (Articles I listed)
3. Yes. (Evzones, as mentioned in military article; I also say in comments that I know someone who served in Aegina, 1 hr from Athens)
4. No. (Answer in military article, first section) I also suggest, “ Jobs and salaries in Athens ” because you’re right on the border, age-wise.

I encourage you to use the Search and Categories in the second column or articles listed in the third column as I say in Comments, Questions and Contacting Me . You could have also called or visited the website of any Greek Consulate/Embassy in AUS. Future redundant questions will be deleted per my policy. Once you get to Greece, no one will help you, so it’s good to learn to help yourself.

Jim wrote @ September 19th, 2008 at 05:02

I was wondering if i visit greece if it’s will be ok.Here is my status.I was born in greece 1968 and went back when i was 13. Whould i be safe just to visit for a few weeks.

Linda Psillakis wrote @ September 20th, 2008 at 10:27

You mentioned that Greek draft dodgers are allowed to visit Greece for up to 3 months a year without being conscripted.. is this still true? Thank you!

Bill wrote @ October 24th, 2008 at 13:33

Hello,
Do the Greek authorities check military obligation status at Eleftherios Venizelos. I’ve been in Greece over three years and am planning on going back to the US. Do you think I’ll have a problem at the airport? FYI I have both a Greek and US passport.Thanks,
Bill

Note from Kat: The answer to your question is in Sebastian’s comment above. Cheers and good luck.

So, I read the entire converstion above in detail, my conclusion is that there are laws but the enforcing of them in Greece are in limbo. You are just lucky if you get caught.

My situation is as follows: I am 31. I was born an raised in the US. Four years ago I met my wife and I’ve lived in Greece since. Last year I applied for and received a Greek passport. I also have a US passport. I did not encounter any problems in the application or receipt of the Greek passport. I have not completed my obligatory Greek military duty, and I wonder where I stand.

A couple of years ago on a beautiful Greek summer day I strolled in to the main “stratopedo” in my city center and I specifically asked the general there what I need to do for my military obligation. He asked me if I got my papers mailed to me. I replied, no. He said, “Entaxi, perna avrio kai bikes”. I obviously never went back. My next step was giving a ring to my lawyer who said, if no paper was sent to you then you have no problem, and you have no problem until you recieve an invitation.

Even after all this I discuss, over Frappe, over pastichio, over metaxa, this enigmatic situation. Being used to a “functional” system, as in the US, leads to me to have worries. However, I really do believe that, we shouldn’t stress. None of us will probably have a problem unless we run in to the guy, at the wrong place, and the wrong time, who has not had their frappe, metaxa or pastichio.

By no means do I tend to imply not to follow laws and act accordingly, this is just my take on things.

My specific problem is that I plan on leaving through Athens El. Benizelos, and I am wondering what their checks are? Do I have a chance of getting dragged in to the army there? What is their protocol? How do they check military obligation and when do they check?

Kat wrote @ October 24th, 2008 at 14:02

J & L - Yes. Articles are always updated with the latest information, but comments reflect whatever laws were in effect at the date of posting. You are also free to check with the Greek Embassy/Consulate nearest you to verify information for your specific case.

B - I write articles based on how laws are written, not conjecture. So the lawful answer is, “Yes, you should be checked, yes you should be kept in the country, and yes you should be drafted eventually.” Men have been kept in Greece and drafted regardless of whether an invitation was sent. I cannot give you further info based on first hand experience because (obviously) I am not Greek, or male or a draft dodger. This is why I told you to read comments from Greek males similar to you above.

In real life? Yes, they will check you for sure at the airport; they scan your passport, bring up your name on the computer and it tells them whether you’re a draft dodger or not. But will you be drafted and kept in the country? You should know better than to ask a question like that if indeed you are familiar with the Greek system. Answer is, “Depends.” Depends on what? Depends on who you get, what mood he’s in, if he checks you thoroughly or glances, how you behave, if you remind him of someone he likes or hates, if his mistress was nice to him the night before. The list is endless.

If you read the comments above and people posting on another article called “Overstaying a visa in Greece,” some men are indeed refused exit and kept in the country as Sebastian and others confirm, some aren’t. What’s going to happen to you specifically? Unfortunately, no one knows because none of us are fortune tellers, and this is one of the main drawbacks of a free but non-functional system.

And if you truly believe that “we shouldn’t stress,” why are we even having this discussion? Don’t worry about it and just see what happens

Tim wrote @ November 23rd, 2008 at 22:26

Hi am 29 years old, born and raised in Canada. Both parents born in Greece. I am actually thinking of going to Greece to serve the 3-6 months required of me, and was wondering the necessary steps that I would need to take?

christoforos wrote @ December 2nd, 2008 at 22:21

hello kat

great website, i am an american citizen of greek descent from my father’s side and have recently been interested in attending graduate school in athens. the school has told me that they are not issuing student visas at the time because of problems with greek authorities, but they said i can be issued a greek ID because of my origin, but i dont see how i can obtain that without citizenship, and therefore military service.

have you heard of this ID issuance before without citizenship, or have heard any alternative ways for me to attend school and work with out a student visa or greek citizenship?

thanks for the help, it was greatly appreciated. i contacted the consulate and am currently waiting for a reply. im sure that many of us all apprecieate the time and information that has gone into this website.

look out over there, ive been reading about the riots, and it seems things are getting a little nutty

Kat wrote @ December 5th, 2008 at 01:31

T - The answer is already provided above. Use the ‘Contact Info’ at the end of the article — Greek citizens abroad inquire at the Greek Consulates/Embassies worldwide, and Greek citizens in Greece go to the nearest Recruiting Office.

C - Hi C! Thanks for saying ‘hi.’ There’s no way to get a Greek ID card (tautotita) without having Greek citizenship; being of Greek origin and/or registered in the oikogeneiaki merida is not enough. The only person I know who has a Greek ID without having Greek citizenship is a Greek-Brit with connections and special diplomatic status.

An alternative — assuming you qualify — is to apply for Greek citizenship, then get the “permanent resident abroad” certificate. As long as you have that and are in school, they cannot draft you. It’s mentioned above in the article, but you really need to contact the Greek Embassy/Consulate nearest you and determine if you qualify and start the process. I hope that helped.

Always happy to assist a polite person with a legitimate question that hasn’t previously been answered.

Toli wrote @ January 9th, 2009 at 17:35

Hello Kat,

I’ma Australian citizen of Greek descent (both parents born in Greece) currently living and holidaying in Greece and considering applying for Greek citizenship.

Regarding military service and given the vagaries and inconsistencies of Greek Law (in general …) I’m trying to understand if i’m still eligible for national service. I’m 45 years of age, and by that I mean i have celebrated my 45th birthday. Does that mean I’m now ineligible for military service? Or do i have to fully complete my 45th year and thereby become ineligible on my 46th birthday? As they say here “prepei na ta kleiseis ta 45″

Apologies for the confusing nature of my question, like everything else in Greece - baffling, and again apologies if this question has been posted before.

Cheers,
Toli

Kat wrote @ January 10th, 2009 at 12:10

Hi Toli,

Thanks for leaving a comment today and for your excellent question.

Greek law defines it as, “1st January of their 19th year until 31st December of their 45th year.” So, you would be free from military service if you turned 45 in 2008. However, if you celebrated your 45th just recently in 2009, that means you have until the end of 2009.

If the latter case applies to you, be careful about applying for Greek citizenship, partaking in any official transactions and exiting/entering the country, as you are technically subject to being drafted. If you turned 45 in 2008, you’re free and clear.

As I told Christoforos, I’m always happy to assist a polite person with a legitimate question that hasn’t been previously answered. You have also helped me assist other men with the same question.

Hope to see you again!

emanoyhl wrote @ January 13th, 2009 at 06:09

hi there!

first i wanted to say thank you - what a wonderful wealth of info

i wanted to post this comment on another article - but those comments were closed - so i figured i’d post it here

i am american born, to Greek parents
i visited Greece a few times, with my last visit in 2005
with my only American passport i was allowed to stay up to 90 days - however, i overstayed - and spent 4 months in Greece

i didn’t realize that if i wanted to stay longer than the 90 days i needed a visa - meaning, i knew this but figured i could get the visa stamp at the American embassy in Athens - i think it would be nice to mention that if you want a visa you must get it from your originating country

dang this box is too small - lol (sorry for babbling, but i hope you can edit/reorganize my comment - i do have some points to share)

anyway, my situation was this:
my Grandmother was ill at the time, so i went to be with her - i stayed with her and helped her back to health - on around the 70th day of my visit, i finally went to Athens to the American Embassy for that visa stamp (which i thought i could do) - they explained i needed to get this stamp for overstaying at the dimarxos of where i was living…. easy enough - i went back to the dimarxos and told him i needed a stamp to stay longer, he called the capital of the prefecture and they told him it costs around 340 euros (approx.) - whereas in USA a visa was about 70$ - so i figured forget it, i’ll just leave Greece before my 90 days… the final option the dimarxos gave me was to go to the hospital where my Grandmother was treated to get a “note from the doctor” stating she was there and that’s the reason for my overstaying…. - so i actually got a “doctor’s note” and officially stamped - no charge - and i carried it with me everywhere just in case…

the other option i was given was to join the military! lol - so yes that is a real thing - however, i wound up staying over 90 days, about 118 days total - so finally, i got to the airport to come back to the USA - the guy at the airport (in the booth - not sure what it’s called) looked at my passport and noticed i overstayed (on the start of the 4th month of my stay my mother came to visit me - and spent the last 3 weeks of my stay with me - and we left together to get back to the USA she with her Greek passport and me with my American) and then he looked at my mother and told us if i overstay again i might have to join the military - with a smile! lol - and he just let us through…. i thought it was odd - but was good - i did read somewere that if you are “caught” overstaying and you leave - they could hold you or make you pay a hefty fine before you can leave….

i hope that made sense as it’s late here and i’ve been on your site for a couple hours and had all these thoughts i wanted to post - and now just finally found a comment box to share some experiences

a good friend of mine lives in Athens, and he did his required military - he said he was simply placed in an office for 9 months and that was it… didn’t go into detail…. because of the time difference we rarely get to chat - he did mention that january of 2009 the military law changed - but he only stated that instead of the 12 months - it’s now 9 months…. i hope to post more on this as i’d like to live and work in Greece as a dual-citizen with USA

anyway enough of my ramblings, i hope you can sort this comment out and make sense of it - lol

i’ll post back more with more solid info - as most any info from Greece is “my friend told me” “i heard from…” etc…. hearsay… lol

thanks again for a fantastic site of info - i only hope to share more with you

thanks!

manoli

Angelo in Athens wrote @ January 25th, 2009 at 03:45

I was born in America and have been living in Athens for 2 and a half years. I enlisted after being here for a year, and they never called me. I did check around, and they sent the papers to the wrong police station. When trying to leave the country, I was stopped and unable to travel. I enlisted for this Feb. and picked up my service papers at the police station. Aren’t they supposed to find me? My question is since I’m foreign born, how long do I have to serve? Some people say that I’ll be there for 6 months; others at stratologia say that I have to go for 12 months. I’ma 32-year-old only child, with no mother (she passed away, bless her soul) and my father is retired; does that count for anything? I have a business that I can’t run since I can’t travel overseas and am unable to work when I’m in the service. The longer I am in the military, the more I suffer monetarily. Just the fact I could not go on my business trip cost me thousands of euros, a loss of clients and an additional 3 months waiting to enlist. I have no problem going, except that it destroys a business I made over the last 6 years. Sorry about the rant. So how long do I have to serve?

Also I’ve heard that going to air force would be more desired than the navy, and then the army. I’m enlisted with the army but I was thinking about transferring to the air force. Any comparisons would be appreciated, and is it possible to transfer at the stage that I’m at right now?

Thanks for having such a wonderful site..Keep up the good work, you are my only resource here in Greece. The US Embassy could care less about my situation.

Kat wrote @ January 26th, 2009 at 11:26

E - I’m not ignoring you, and I didn’t forget you. My comments and clarifications will be forthcoming.

A - There were amendments to the Greek military law on January 1, 2009, and I’m getting documentation (hopefully) sent to me to update this article. But there are three things I know:
1) You will not serve 12 months. You will serve 3 or 6 months. Which one? I don’t know because there use many factors to calculate your length of duty. Unfortunately, only a dead father reduces your time, not a dead mother. Retirement has no bearing.
2) It is not the US Embassy’s job to know Greek laws. They are a diplomatic mission handling issues pertaining to the homeland, not the country in which it is a guest. Only Greek Consulates and Embassies are required to serve people with regard to Greek issues and laws.
3) Non-transparent countries with flexible laws bring flexible results. Many love Greece because the law can be bent, bribed or ignored, but the drawback of course is you cannot plan your life or predict an outcome so your business suffers, you lose money and you could be in limbo for months more. So if you love Greece for those reasons, you must accept the consequences as well — you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You may or may not be able to transfer — it depends.

I’m not male or Greek, and I don’t know anyone who served in the air force so I cannot tell you if one is more desired than another. Choosing one branch or another is usually a personal preference. Some don’t like flying, some don’t like the water.

You can verify anything I’ve said or get further answers by calling or visiting the military recruiting office — visiting their Web sites is pointless since they’ve not been updated for many months and listening to hearsay is equally fruitless as each case is unique. You must go direct to the source.

Please let me know what happened in the end, if you can. And thank you for leaving a comment and compliment.

Nick wrote @ January 28th, 2009 at 15:37

Hi Kat

Perhaps with your inside knowledge you could help clear these questions up for me please?

To give you a little background, I’m half Greek - my father (Greek) and mother (English) and I have recently completed a DNA test with my father that establishes us as father & son - and therefore myself as having “Greek origin”

I’ma full time UK resident and onlt visit Greece a few times a year (a week here and there) to visit relatives.

I recently read this advise published on the web page of a prminent Athens lawyer:

“Many males of Greek origin are concerned that if they obtain the citizenship they will have to serve in the Greek Army. This is not the case if they retain their status as foreign residents”

Can you confirm if this is the case?

I have also read that it’s fine for me to come to Greece for up to 6 months without being obliged to due military service providing:

a) You register with the nearest recruitment office in Greece to the place you stay at during your visit

b) You apply for a certificate of foreign permenant residency from the Greek embassy in the foreign county of residence

What would happen if I DIDNT do a & b and went to Greece anyway?

I also believe that you HAVE to be able to speak Greek to be conscripted anyway - so what happens if you cant?

Any light you can shed on these questions would be greatfully recieved!

Toli wrote @ January 29th, 2009 at 19:32

Hi Kat, thank you for your follow-up, and apologies for the delayed response. As it happens, I celebrated my 45th b’day in December, so I should be in the clear.

Like all things in Greece, it’sa grey area, subject to individual interpretation, and given to change without notice. However the law you quote is clear cut, and therefore gives me confidence in proceeding and lodging my papers. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Toli

kelly wrote @ January 29th, 2009 at 19:45

Hi there, i read your post. My husband is greek citizen and we are living curently in ireland. He managed somehow to delay the army for one year, but i guess there will come a time when they have to call him. What if they send the letter calling him to the army to the address in greece? We won’t know when it will happen. And then he will be a army dodger?

He wants to have a career in ireland, but if in greece they will make him bad name, do you think his future career will blow up?

Your last reply to somebody you said, “…get further answers by calling or visiting…” i will get my husband to call .. maybe we solve something.

:/

thanks for posting ..

won’t serving in the greek army be less than 6 months .. i mean wont it be null?

k asimakopoulos wrote @ January 30th, 2009 at 18:52

Hi Kat
Thanks again for this site!
I am dying to hear about the new changes to the law. Have you any new info? I just turned 35 in Nov. Thanks so much.

Angelo in Athens wrote @ January 30th, 2009 at 20:21

Hey Kat…thanks so much. The more I talk to people, the more I seem to know. But I have learned that there is not much I can do at this time without a connection. I’ll find out how long my service is after I go to Corinth, where they will tell me everything, hopefully. Your advice is very sound. For the same reasons you stated is why I like Greece, but everything with paperwork is really a pain. I’ll give you an update as soon as I get.

Angelo

Kat wrote @ January 31st, 2009 at 13:18

N - I do not have inside knowledge; all I do is translate and read the law as it’s written. I know which lawyer you’re talking about, and he is not “prominent.” Good lawyers are too busy to advertise themselves on the Internet or newspapers because they have enough clients through recommendations and personal referrals. He also does not interpret Greek citizenship law correctly, claiming that “any ancestor” will get someone Greek citizenship — this is not true. I know people who were rejected on this false claim, and he kept their money, which amounted to hundreds of euros per person. Katalabes?

Answers to your questions are already in my article. I already say you must register; I already say that a permanent resident abroad certificate is a good idea; I already say under “Speaking Greek” what will happen if you don’t; I already say what will happen if you take risks by sharing the stories of people I know and in comments. Anyone who breaks laws and doesn’t have connections to get them out of trouble is subject to military draft and held inside the country. Period. Ignorance and not speaking Greek are not legitimate defenses.

Toli- No apologies. I figured you took the information and went forward, but thank you for checking in. It’s always a pleasure to help someone who has a solid question and contributes to the discussion. Glad you’re safe

K - In matters of the Greek state, it is the responsibility of its citizens and residents to be accountable for their affairs. So if the letter is sent to the Greek address, it is assumed your husband will get it because that’s the address he gave. My understanding is that he is allowed to live and work in another EU member state without fear of being drafted; Greek authorities will not go to Ireland and drag him back. However, once he comes back to Greece even for vacation, he’s subject to draft. Also if he is a sketo Greek citizen who was born in Greece and not a dual citizen with a permanent resident abroad certificate, his service will be 9 months, not 3-6 months or null. But yes, do call and inquire for his specific situation.

KA - Life is very busy for me right now, professionally and personally. I realize that all people see is a Web site, but there are technical issues, development, updating old articles, translating, writing/researching original articles, moderating/answering comments and questions (this thread alone took an hour), etc. And this is something I do in my free time. The article will be updated when I have the time to concentrate, translate and write. Thank you for your interest and patience.

A in A - Well, if you love Greece for those reasons, you must accept the consequences also. We cannot have it both ways. Do let us know what happens to you. Cheers!

Jamie wrote @ January 31st, 2009 at 17:01

I’m glad to have found this question and answer page. It’s nice to be a little bit informed about what my Fiance will be enduring. Ok, so the questions I have are-

Is it possible that he will be able to come to the states for a visit while he is still within the year?(or 9 months)

If it is possible, how difficult with the process be, or even…how probable is it to be accepted?

Kat wrote @ February 4th, 2009 at 20:24

J - Depends.

As I understand from Greek citizens (not dual citizens) who have family and a home here, military leave (or adeia) can be granted for trips outside the country if there are no red flags, such as previous visa violations, bad behavior, etc. It depends on the military branch he serves, depends on his superior officer, depends on where he’s serving…many things.

As I understand from dual Greek citizens who have family or homes in other countries, the bureaucracy is a bit more complex because this person is considered more of a flight risk than a sole Greek citizenship holder with family ties inside Greece. See Vasileios’ comment above. In this case, most men have their girlfriends, wives or families visit them.

“Travel Girl” from Canada (mintheuk.blogspot.com) decided to move, live and travel in Europe while her Greek-Canadian boyfriend was serving here; his family was also here in Greece, so it was nice for everyone concerned and made them stronger as a couple.

Nick wrote @ March 1st, 2009 at 01:26

If I was applying for dual citizenship US/Greek and got it, would I still have to enlist in the Greek military even if I was active duty US for 20 years?

Kat wrote @ March 2nd, 2009 at 20:32

In a word, yes. See the Reduced Tours and Exemptions sections above. Please search/read more carefully next time, and thank you for stopping by.

Thaddius wrote @ March 30th, 2009 at 06:30

I have a question. I am a dual citizen of Greece and the United States (just got my Greek Citizenship at the age of 26). I have lived in the United States my entire life and only travel to Greece in the summers for a couple of weeks vacation. I hold a US and Greek passport. I have not served in the Greek military and do not plan to as I do not plan to live in Greece for more than 6 mos per year. I know I can go through the process at the Greek Consulate to get a Pistopioitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou so I can enter and exit Greece w/oa problem but my question is this… What if I fly to Paris from the USA (enter Schengen Zone in France) connect on a flight to Athens and then do the same Athens-Paris-USA on the way back. I believe there is no passport control on intra Schengen flights, so how would the Greek authorities have the opportunity to ever check my passport or give me or any other Greek who hasn’t fulfilled their military obligation trouble entering and exiting the country as long as we are travelling within the Schengen zone? Am I missing something?

Note from Kat: Since your final destination is a non-EU, non-Schengen country, airline personnel will still ask to see your passport when you check in. Plus, you’ll go through passport control in France. If the France and Greece Schengen systems talk to each other, your passport will be flagged, and they’ll get you next time.

Am I missing something? As I stated above to other men of Greek origin, no one will bother you as long as you stay under 6 months (with the permanent resident abroad certificate) and don’t intend to work in Greece; or under 90 days in the Schengen zone (without the certificate), which is your visa-free right as an American citizen. Male Greek citizens normally get in trouble when going over the 90 days Schengen visa or over the 6 months stated by the certificate.

Mike wrote @ March 31st, 2009 at 13:00

A question for Thaddius - how did you manage to get your Greek passport without first obtaining your army waiver?

My Greek Citizenship also came through recently, but the consulate wouldn’t allow me even to look at an application for the passport until *after* I applied for, and obtained, the Pistopoiitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou - for which I happened to qualify since I have never lived outside the US and have visited Greece at most for a few weeks at a time. Whatever one’s case may be, representatives at the two consulates I have worked with (Boston and Los Angeles) confirmed that appropriate army requirements must be met before a passport can be issued to males in the 19-45 age range.

On the other hand, I managed to obtain a tautotita in Greece while there on vacation, just after the citizenship was granted, but before I had submitted any army-related documentation to the authorities.

Note from Kat: Hi Mike, that’sa great question. I’ve had many tell me that they couldn’t get a passport until they served army or secured the certificate; and I know equally as many men who got a Greek passport without doing either and without a lawyer. I believe it has to do with lax enforcement, staff not being consistent in following rules, or some passports were issued before the age of 19. Or maybe it’s just Greece. There is no restriction on tautotitas.

Thaddius wrote @ April 1st, 2009 at 07:08

In response to Mike…I just applied for a passport and got one. Nothing additional was required. I did hire a lawyer who had worked with the consulate many times before to help me with my citizenship and passport application so maybe that helped as well. I am meeting with the stratologo to get my Pistopoiitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou next month but I already have the passport and pistopioitiko gennisis from the municipality in greece. I did have to swear that “I have not been declared as a draft evader or deserter.” which was technically true since I had just gotten my citizenship the day before I applied so the military had never even contacted me yet (it usually takes at least 6 months for them to start to try to contact you) so it is true that I have never been declared as a draft evader or deserter, etc.

One more question for Kat…what if I spent a couple of nights in Paris before and after my trip to Greece so as far the Greek authorities were concerned my final destination is Paris? If this would work should I use my US passport the whole way or my Greek passport? In any case, I am meeting with the stratologo to get the Pistopioitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou but I may be going to Greece for a week before this goes through so thought my alternate plan may be an option to avoid any trouble.

Note from Kat: You don’t need to do that. US passport holders have a 90-day Schengen visa, so one week is way under your maximum. (Perhaps you read my last reply to you before it was updated). As for what passport to use, please read the applicable section under, “ American and Greek dual citizenship .” Have a nice trip!

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