Living in Greece

Non-EU citizens in Greece with a bebaiosi may travel home through 2015

November 20, 2009 at 20:00 ·

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Fantastic and appreciated info, as always! I’m glad the new gov’t is relaxing the rather outdated laws regarding movement in and out of the country. The next step that would be nice would be streamlining and quickening the process of getting the visa from 6 months to something around 3 months.

Kat Reply:
November 21st, 2009 at 19:26

I wish this had been done years ago, so my friends weren’t left heartbroken and without closure in missing their mother’s and grandparents’ funerals. They just wanted to say their last goodbye.

Do you mean visa or permit…or both? I’d like to see permits issued more quickly, not waiting six months to a year or more.

Hi Kat,

I have completely failed to think of any logical reason that someone with a bebaiosi cannot travel outside the country except to visit their “home country” within the declared timeframes. It makes very little sense for an initial application, and none whatsoever for a renewal. I ask you or anyone else to please advise if you can think of a good reason.

You do say that the Gov’t has shown some indication of changing this law. Let’s hope they do. But no one should hold their breath waiting for it to happen. The country as a whole fears immigration in many respects (how much better they would be if they feared emigration to the same degree…), and I don’t see it
being any big priority. But I suppose, as we’re constantly reminded, we chose to live here!

Regards

Kat Reply:
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:49

Traveling with a bebaiosi is an issue because it’s only a receipt or acknowledgment that the applicant has deposited his/her papers to be reviewed for possible issuance of a permit. Regardless how English-language media and Embassies interpret the paper, the bebaiosi is not a temporary permit because nothing has been officially approved, and it is not (and cannot be) a visa because: a) Schengen allows 90 days maximum stay in any 180-day period; and b) the bebaiosi and (hopefully) permit is based on his/her original visa; issuing another visa would moot the application for the permit.

Therefore, unless the applicant’s original visa is still valid, he/she technically has no official, legal status in Greece or anywhere. If he/she leaves the country for any reason, Greece has no obligation to grant re-entry because all they have an expired visa (no permission to enter Greece or any country) and no residence permit (no permission to live in Greece or anywhere). One’s homeland is an exception, of course, because the applicant has citizenship there.

The reason the Greek government of past and present has given some importance to the bebaiosi is because it takes so long to issue a permit.
— By law, a first-time applicant should begin submitting papers within 30 days of arrival. If the visa is valid for a remaining 60 days, and the permit only took 90 days to issue, the most an applicant with only a bebaiosi could wait to leave the country is 30 days. No big deal.
— By law, a renewal applicant should begin submitting papers at least 60 days before the permit’s expiration. If the expiring permit has validity for 60 days, and the new permit took only 90 days to be issued, the most an applicant with only a bebaiosi could wait to leave the country is 30 days. Again, no big deal.

But in reality, a person could wait up to a year or more to have a Greek permit issued, so there’s more than 30 days at stake. A person is then ‘sentenced’ to remain inside Greece’s borders while time passes, forgoing holidays, births, deaths, traveling for business or pleasure. Life.

Hi Kat,
Understand that the bebaiosi is only a receipt for what appeared to be a properly completed application for residence at the time it was submitted , including that they legally entered the country. But per Greek law, “Third-country nationals who have promptly submitted an application for the issuance or renewal of a residence permit with all required documentation and have received the certificate of deposit referred to in the preceding paragraph shall be considered as legally residing in the country until the administration decides on their request.” (Greek law 3386/05 {last amended 23Sep2009} Art 11, par. 4; the English version as published on several GR Gov’t web sites)

So what I fail to see is, why if a person legally resides in Greece they cannot depart the country and return as long as an adverse decision has not been made on their application? The answer seems to be implicitly admitted in the recent decision to grant a 13 ½ month window for “bebaiosi-holders” to depart/return.

As to where they travel, that should be up to those countries. I would argue that at the point they are granted the right to legally reside in Greece, whether it be through a bebaiosi or residence permit, they are not up against the “Schengen clock” for their time in Greece after issuance of the relevant authorization to remain there, given that Greece has granted them the right to reside in a (specific) Schengen country for an undefined period. But if for the sake of argument that’s a factor to another Schengen country besides Greece, that should still have no bearing on travel to one (of the large majority) of non-Schengen countries in the world. (In practice of course, one runs the risk of being “invited” for an interview in Greece and missing it due to their absence, which will effectively cause their application to be cancelled. But that’s in the category of adverse decision – for failure to appear for interview – and not for absence from the country per se.)

Finally, I understand that the above argument is not how the (majority of) Greek authorities will likely view the situation; I just don’t understand the why. And I have to say that this latest step by the government-in-power is a very big step forward. My biggest hope is that they continue to make significant progress towards more reasonable policies pertaining to all the many immigration/residency issues here; Greece will be much the better for it.

Regards,

Kat Reply:
December 6th, 2009 at 11:23

T,

As you rightly said, Greek law deems someone as legally residing in Greece if they submitted their papers for review and are awaiting a decision. So in essence, they shouldn’t need special permission to be outside the country for any reason. But, in the eyes of Greek authorities, there is a fine line between “residing legally on a pending application” and “being a fully approved official permit holder.” I’m sure you know what I’m talking about when I refer to fine lines.

Non-EU spouses and children are supposed to have equal rights to an EU resident according to an EU directive, but in Greece this is only in theory. What is written and what is implemented or enforced are not always the same thing.

I cannot comment on what you said about Schengen because I do not have intimate knowledge of all Schengen members’ laws and regulations for those waiting for a permit. It could be that they are the same as Greece.

Why is Greece so afraid of letting people with bebaiosis travel and/or leave and re-enter the country? Honestly, I can’t think of a logical reason. It’s not breaching security, and there are no risks I can think of. The real risk is taken by the immigrant, i.e., Whether Greece lets them back in.

I am a first time applicant for residence permit. I’ve read that this law applies to the first-time applicants as well, but I’m in doubt because in the google-translated version of the press release it mentions some paragraph numbers.

In my ΚΑΤΗΓΟΡΙΑ ΑΔΕΙΑΣ it is written: ” ΣΠΟΥΔΕΣ ΣΕ ΕΡΓΑΣΤΗΠΙΑ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΩΝ ΣΠΟΥΔΩΝ (N. 3386/05, αρθρο 30, παρ. 3)

Could you please shed some light on this issue?

Kat Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 07:29

There’s a typo in your Greek portion; it should say ΕΡΓΑΣΤΗΡΙΑ. In any case, I don’t see the confusion. The press release says “the relevant provision of 3386/05,” and your category falls in the same (3386/05) so that applies to you. It doesn’t matter what article or paragraph.

I don’t know if this is the right place for my comment, but I just wanted to say thank YOU for your great website and all the useful info you are giving.

Also I wanted to share my experience with waiting my residence permit/card. It took more than a year and a half to get it. It was such a long period that I started thinking the bebaiosi they gave me the first time was the final permit 😉

Kat Reply:
December 7th, 2009 at 06:31

Thank you for you kind compliment and for stopping in to share your story. Indeed, this is the case for the majority of people.

In the past, the bebaiosi didn’t look so official and couldn’t be mistaken for a permit. It used to be a irregularly cut, badly photocopied, handwritten document with a stapled photo. Some passport control officials in other countries wondered if it was real or if I’d made it myself.

Hi Kat, First of all, I want to thank you so much for your wonderful site, I know a lot of people tell you this, but I want to let you know how helpful and informative you site has become to me, now that my boyfriend and I are planning to move to Greece, again Thank you so very much.

The reason I am writing to you, and I am sorry this is a bit off-topic, but I was searching on your site about this specific topic is not found anywhere. We are moving to Greece with our beloved pet. I been trying to get some info about bringing our Suzi with us, but there is no much info in the net about bringing dogs to Greece. I know is crazy, but I just can’t leave behind my dog here in Miami. Are Greek laws as strict as they are in England about pets? The Greek consulate here has not been of much help either.
Thank you so much, and a virtual big hug from Florida ;-).

Kat Reply:
December 12th, 2009 at 22:32

Hi Yen, that’s true. There is currently no article on my website covering bringing pets to Greece, though one will be offered in the future. My experience is limited because I have no pets, so I’ll need to collect real-life stories from people who did this to supplement official bureaucracy. The best source I can give you right now is an article from the U.S. Embassy in Athens called, “Bringing pets to Greece.”

http://athens.usembassy.gov/ac_pets.html

It is not as strict as the UK. I also recommend calling the airline you choose, as each has its own rules and fees. Thank you for saying hello and look forward to having you stop in again. 🙂

I keep on asking myself and my Greek friends in Africa why it’s so difficult to get or renew a residence permit in Greece, even when the person provides all the required documents when due. Some will wait six months, some wait two years to get the same permit, some say it depends on who handles your file. I believe only sensitive people should be employed to work at sensitive offices like the periferia.

Kat Reply:
December 22nd, 2009 at 01:00

I agree with your last statement, but the reason behind this inefficiency is more complex and goes way beyond insensitive employees. We can only hope that things will change in the future.

I brought my Cat to Greece in 2004. The Greek consulate in Los Angeles advised me to get a current health certificate (must be within a certain number of days days prior to departure–not sure exactly how long), plus i had to have a chip implanted in her because of supposed Euro laws. When I arrived at the Athens Airport, the customs guy looked at my cat, said “What’s this”, and I said “Patriotisa” (compatriot–because she was born in Greece), and he just laughed and looked briefly at the Greek consulate’s stamp on her health certificate, and waved us thru…. As Kat says, results may vary–but that’s my Cat story.

i am confused . my question is i am married to a greek woman i have the bebaiosi can i go back to my country then come back to greece with the bebaiosi only and my passport or do i need another visa or what , i did read the article but i am so confused , i called at the dimos they said it is ok . so what is the truth ?

Kat Reply:
January 23rd, 2010 at 01:14

Doesn’t matter who you are married to. All that matters is you have an unexpired bebaiosi and an unexpired passport during the time you’re traveling. If you have those two things, you are free to leave and come back from now until December 31, 2010. The dimos and I are saying the same thing. I don’t see the confusion.

There’s no way you could apply for another visa.

Thank you very much for all that you have been doing for us, the non- eu citizens in greece.

My question is my brother left about a month ago for our home country (Ghana) after the law was made that those with bebaiosi can travel ’til the end of December 31 2010. He already applied for his residence permit and is waiting for his sticker. Still waiting for his sticker he decided to go with his bebaiosi to his mother`s funeral and return a month later.

On his bebaiosi there is no expiry date so on his way back, his passport together with his bebaiosi was seized by immigration officers in Ghana saying that there is no expiry date on his bebaiosi, so they will never allow him to go back.

He is confused now and all explanation to let him come back has proved futile and all that they are saying is they need a document that shows that there is no expiry date on the bebaiosi.

Please, can you do anything about this for me. This happened only three days ago. Please help because he needs to come back and start his work. If there is any letter that can be sent to him to prove to Ghanian immigration officers which can allow him to return to Greece safely. Counting on your co-operation. Thank you.

Kat Reply:
February 10th, 2010 at 01:47

Hi Ernest,

It’s true that the bebaiosi does not have an expiration date; it only has an issuance date and does not explain anywhere that it is good for one year. Therefore, officials in other countries have no way of knowing Greece’s laws or how to interpret the document.

There are only two ways to possibly fix this:

1) Because you are in Greece, you can go to the municipality (dimos office) where his bebaiosi was issued and tell them the situation, ask them to make a copy of the correct law pertaining to the bebaiosi’s “expiration” after one year from issuance and/or draft a letter with your brother’s name to explain this. They should have a copy of his bebaiosi on file in a binder or be able to send for his folder.

Because the letter will be in Greek, you would need to take it to the Translation Office in Athens and have it officially translated for Ghanian officials. You can then send it directly to your brother.

2) Alternatively, you could involve the Ghanian Embassy and ask them to help. Embassy officials are not required to intervene pertaining to issues with its citizens and Greek laws, but your brother’s case involves Ghanian officials and therefore qualifies under their jurisdiction.

However, my impression is this would add an extra layer of bureaucracy and delay the process in #1, and time is something that your brother does not have as he may lose his job. And if he loses his job, he will lose his permit.

I’m sorry that your first comment was because your brother is in trouble. But in any case, thank you for your kind words and I hope you’ll stop in again.

Hello Kat,
First of all, thanks a lot for all the help you provide to us via this website, it is amazing how unorganized the laws and public offices are in Greece, nobody know (or cares) to tell you what you must do to make things right.

I am from Mexico, I currently am in Athens with a Student Permit, waiting for it anyway, I have given all my papers, I have the blue photo ID paper but still waiting for the sticker. I have booked tickets to go back home for about a month in June (June 11 to July 18 to be exact), but I didn’t know we had a specifc period of time to go outside the country with this.

my question is, if my sticker is not ready by the time I travel, when is the time they usually allow us to travel back home? do you think I’ll have any problem?

I gave all my papers in Sept 2009, in feb I went to get an update and they told me everything was ok, just still waiting, in March I went and they told me I need another health insurance, which I should be giving these days and hopefully won’t take another 6 months for them to update me.

Thanks a lot!

Kat Reply:
March 23rd, 2010 at 18:02

Hi Daniel,

I remember you. Thanks for coming back.

I’m a bit confused as to why you’re asking these questions because the article above already answers them, so perhaps you didn’t read or understand it. The article says:

1) You do not need a permit sticker to travel according to the press release
2) You can travel with a valid bebaiosi (blue paper with photo), as long as it’s valid
3) You can travel to your homeland until December 31, 2010
4) Print out the press release and carry it, just in case.

So why would you have any problem?

Kat, I’m very sorry, when you posted Nov 2009 to Dec 2010 my mind understood Dec 2009 thinking it was a Xmas Grace period kind of thing, I’m actually very surprised they did it for that long the time. But very happy to hear it though =p

Sorry again and thanks for the info!

Kat Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 13:15

Ah ha! I see the confusion now. I’m sorry too! I understand your shock (haha) and how you thought that way because past administrations only granted weeks-long windows during which non-EU citizens could leave.

I loved my time in Mexico, especially traveling in those little buses that pick you up on the side of the road and diving in Akumal, Puerto Morelos and Cozumel. One of the most amazing and heartbreaking times of my life. Have a nice trip! 🙂

Hello, thank you for your incredibly useful site.

I moved to Greece in late December. Before I left the States, I began the application process for a residence permit for financially independent persons for myself and my child. Five months into my stay, I am still awaiting confirmation that my application will be approved.

My child attends school here, but will return to the States with me this summer. She may or may not return at the end of the summer for school in Greece. (There is a chance she will attend in the States where her father lives. We haven’t made this decision yet.)

I have several questions:

1. One, if I have not yet received our permits by the time we leave, will i have any trouble returning? As it stands now, I intend to return in the fall for a period of time, either in September with my child or on my own by mid-October.

2. If I’ve not yet received our permits by the time we leave, will I need to return specifically to complete the application process?

3. Our dimos only issued a blue paper/bebaiosi for me. Should I request one for her, too, for our travels home?

4. If our permit is denied for some reason, what are the ramifications? Do you see any other possibilities for problems with my situation?

5. You say, “As a precaution, non-EU citizens may want to print and carry a copy of the official “Press Release in Greek.” Why? Because border police are sometimes misinformed of the law, or know it and refuse passage until a lawyer or journalist intervenes.” Do you mean it is possible for a US citizen to be denied the right to travel home, or that we could be denied entry upon trying to return to Greece? I hope, if either, the latter. The idea of being held at the Athens airport with my child is nightmarish!

6. If my child travels to the US this summer on the blue bebaiosi but doesn’t return until after the deadline of December 31st, will there be any ramifications. (When I return in the fall, my intention is to complete both of our permit applications, not just mine.)

Again, my thanks for your help. I’m amazed by the extent of your knowledge and research!

Kat Reply:
May 21st, 2010 at 02:12

I consolidated separate comments into one, then numbered your questions.

As I say in “FAQ: Greek work and residence permits,” it is very typical to wait up to a year for an initial permit sticker to be issued. They say 60-90 days, but this has never happened to me in 12 years and I don’t know any non-EU citizen who received it this quickly the first time without utilizing connections.

1. As I say in the article above, traveling with the bebaiosi is fine. Why would you have a problem returning in September or October? I state things how they’re written. If you’re looking for further confirmation/affirmation, please ask Greek authorities.
2. No. But you should check on its status before leaving. In all likelihood, no one will contact you if something is wrong or even when it’s ready. I say this in ‘FAQ’ also.
3. She should have her own bebaiosi, and I understood from your comment that she does.
4. Unfortunately, I do not represent Greek authorities and cannot foretell the future. If you fulfilled all the requirements, why would you be denied? If you are denied, they tell you why, and you fix it. If you cannot fix it, you leave Greece.
5. Denied re-entry to Greece. It’s not illegal to leave the country.
6. Again, I cannot foretell the future; and asking the ministry to make a decision on something that’s seven months away is completely against how things are done here. At this time, the ministry is allowing travel to one’s homeland until December 31, 2010. They will announce a decision for the period after that, whenever they’re ready.

If your child stays in the USA and does not return to Greece, simply inform the dimos and they’ll cancel the file. There’s no harm in changing your mind.