Living in Greece

One apartment, hold the mold

March 27, 2008 at 07:02 ·

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Oh very nice mpanio! Malakies!

Katalaba na mou les, but we are in difficult situation. Every euro we spend on moving or a complaint is money we do not have to leave the country. We just got finished losing our 500 euros deposit from the last bad house, 600 euros for moving, countless euros to set up the phone/DSL/house, making all the repairs, etc. Not to mention, I’m the one who is responsible for all the packing and unpacking…I really hate it, and I’ve done it twice already in one year. I hate mold too, but to me this is not a clear choice because I want to move my life, not my house.

In the past, I have brought complaints against landlords and won, but it took more than 5 years and 5.000 euros (translators/laywers/witness expenses/lost wages), and I have not seen a single cent of the money and damages awarded to me by the court 2 years ago. To force it, I must again go to court. I do not believe I have the time, patience/sanity and money to do it again.

Ironically, if I were an illegal tenant, I could leave with no problem or penalty. But of course, a lease in my name is required for my permit, so I had to do it the straight way. Stupid me for being legal.

Μήπως είναι καλύτερα να αλλάξετε σπίτι? Ή να κάνετε μήνυση?

πάντως είναι να μην σου τύχει! Εμένα μου πλημμύρισε το σπίτι επειδή η απω πάνω έβαλε να πλύνει τις βελέντζες στην μπανιέρα και άφησε την βρύση να τρέχει και μετά πήγε στον γκόμενο να κοιμηθεί!!!!!

Sounds like you’ve got it easy ! LOL

Time for you to move out of that god-forsaken country!

How have you managed to lose deposits? Every good Greek knows that you refuse to pay the last month’s (or 2 months) rent, so that the landlord cannot steal the money! I did this with my last landlord (who was a lawyer) and who kept on reminding me of what the law requires. I simply informed him that I didn’t have the spare cash to afford it… To make up the difference between the (high) deposit and the rent, I also left one unpaid bill. Later, I sent a letter of explanation, inviting the former landlord to request any extra monies owed (he didn’t).

A general principle for all: make sure that others have to sue you, and not the other way around. The reason? Apart from the cost, winning in a Greek court seems to be fairly meaningless. Kat’s experience in [not] collecting damages awarded seems quite common here.

Kat Reply:
March 27th, 2008 at 18:40

The last deposit was lost because my fiance decided one week before we were moving, that we were indeed moving. Therefore, that month’s rent had been paid 3 weeks previous and we were current on all our bills. I’d stated my objection to paying the rent earlier that month when there were rumors of a move AND I stated my objection to this current apartment, but my voice as an experienced renter and woman do not carry as much weight in this house as a stubborn man in his own country who has never lived away from home. (I love my fiance, but he is chauvinistic and illogical at times. I have said this to his face, so I’m not speaking behind his back.)

I myself have never lost a deposit in any country/city I’ve lived, except to the man I took to court, but that was a situation in which he broke into the house, changed my locks while I was out of the country, rented my home to someone else (thus collecting double rent from that person and myself), rendering me homeless when I returned, and I was forced to go to police to accompany me and get my things (some he stole) or I could have been arrested. You can read all about it on the “Cockroach” post referenced above.

Oh Kat, now the radiator? When it rains, it pours. You poor thing.

About being ill, I’ve honestly been wondering if that’s why we’ve been so sick this year, aside from every nasty virus the kids pick up at school. My sister swears that’s why I’ve been sick so much. I’m sick again…yippee.

We talked to the guy that sold us the house about the mold. He was like, ” oh, we thought that it was only because the house was closed up so much”. I just don’t understand how the inside of a closet is black and someone can pretend that it’s not a problem. Yes, we looked at the house, we just didn’t open the closets in the problem bedroom…only the ones in the kids’ rooms. Ti na kaname? We own this problem now.

BTW-glad to help you laugh a little about this since I know it’s not really funny.

DD – Truly, I’m in the paradise I’ve always dreamed of. LOL!

RJ – You know, it’s funny you should say that. If you’ve read other posts of mine, you know that my original date to depart was September 2006, but I fell in love and got engaged…silly me. So whenever something happens, I kind of feel it’s a sign that I’ve indeed stayed too long and affirms my decision to go. I was dead against taking this house and the last one, but part of being a couple is making compromises even if you know they’re wrong, so you can rub it in the other person’s face later on.

C – A long time ago in my 20s, I kept coming down with flu-like or infection type symptoms, doctors would give me something, I’d get well and fall ill again. They couldn’t figure it out, until finally someone asked if I sat near an air conditioner at work. I sat in front of one. Turns out that air conditioner’s filter had never been changed, so I kept catching molds from it. Once they changed it, I got well and stayed well. I’m not telling you this because it necessarily applies to you or to make you paranoid, but it’s something to consider.

Talking to you about things makes it easier somehow because you know what it’s like to live back there, and you know what it’s like to live here. I don’t have to give peripheral information. Like you said, we share a solidarity in our sense of humor and persistence to be happy in the here and now, even if our everyday lives may differ slightly with you being in a house in the north with kids, and me here in an apartment in Athens with my new furry friends.

Didn’t you know that if you ignore problems or put them on the street, they’re no longer problems? Out of sight, out of mind…or blame the public sector. Get with the program, will you? Filakia

FMS,

What would you do if the landlord threatened to kick your butt if you didn’t pay and physically got in your face, and refused to let you get back into your place.

Twenty years ago, this happened to me at my first place, and made me very uncomfortable. Fortunately, I had a very nice neighbor who was much bigger than the landlord and when he saw what was happening to me, he stepped in and the bullying stopped cold. Although I’m not averse to fighting for a good cause, I felt ambushed by this guy since he was not a violent type I thought and was shocked by his extremely aggressive behavior.

Since then, I’ve grown a pair and realized that aggressiveness in Greece is just bravado and not really a threat. I can scream and yell and get in your face as good as the rest of em. But, initially, coming from the states, I took personal threats seriously because as you know, in the states sometimes people make good on their threats, unlike Greece.

Kat, We’ll be ripping out the closets when it gets warmer. After K fixes the problem…we’ll see. We’ve also considered moving the bed in the room that now serves as a closet…but it won’t fit. So we run the dehumidifier daily, but it doesn’t really seem to help. I’m afraid to see how much mold is between the closet and the wall, I’ve seen the other things that we’ve worked on around here…

re:- 2nd paragraph. Right back at ya!

Finally, LOL! You’re too much!

Former Butterfly: yes, such confrontations can be nasty. I saw them in England, rather than in Greece, so they are universal I guess. For my part, somehow I have always managed to avoid criminal and violent landlords, so it is only observational. Generally speaking, the expression “his bark is worse than his bite” can be applied in Greece. {Note well: this expression should not be used liberally in relation to Russian and Albanian mafia that you can find in Greece]

Kat: I hope that you are now convinced of male superiority in all of these matters!

I tend the to agree with the comment that it is time to get out of Greece. The Athenians that rent these boxes are forced to do so as they have no alternative other than to move to their villages where there is no work. In your case, you could easily walk into a beautiful home (I cannot speak of europe, but it’s an excellent time to buy in NJ, NY or CA) with a backyard and everything most Athenians dream of and also to get a better job as well. AND NO DAILY FRUSTRATION AND NO INSULTS. Well, you might get bored at times as life might not be as exciting, but you need to think of priorities (and missed opportunities) as the years go by fast…and Greece will always be there to visit.

Well well well…

What can I say? You ABANDONED the ‘true north strong and free’ (that’s the northern suburbs of Athens BTW and not Canada) to live ‘down there’ with that lot…

But… we’ll still welcome you back up here when you come to your senses!

Filakia

Kat, the mold is SO scary for your health, I hope you can find a way to keep it at bay somehow (or force your landlord to fix it asap). I can’t believe they aren’t living with the same thing in their place? Do people here just not understand how unhealthy it is???

We had one hell of a mold problem on Kos – and our landlady’s offered solution to the problem? Paint over it! The weird thing was – the mold came in winter – it wasn’t humid or warm, although it wasn’t cold cold either.

Other than that, I think overall we lucked out with our rentals. Our apartment in Athens was good except for a massive ant problem (hey, the cats made their bread and butter in that place). On Kos we had the mold and a landlady who needed LOTS of attention (and having a doctor living downstairs meant she got free medical advice – to this day – she still calls us now and then to talk to my husband about her various health problems!). On Litochoro, we were blessed with good landlords who were almost never around and friendly when they were, who fixed the toilet right away when it broke and were quite sad when we left.

In our house now, I’m terrified of the first sight of mold. We have no windows in our bathrooms so we run the bathroom fan for awhile after a shower to deplete the humidity. Supposedly the house has been built to fight mold, but I don’t trust anything anymore.

I hope somehow, some way, you get a silver lining here.

I live in a ground floor, and the fight against the mold is constant. I have some small areas with humidity but not mold (yet). For me the trick is to remove it as fast as it appears and change the “air” of the house often. But you know that in winter I moved the table near the radiator because I was freezing and the house was frozen.

One week ago (with the strikes) I fought against two big cockroaches. I believe they teleported inside the house because there is no hole big enough to allow them inside. Also with some spiders but those were piece of cake.

Now it rains and I’m thinking to continue writing under the blankets (I´m cold).

My landlord, as all landlords tries to avoid fixes, but at least they seem like nice people (they = couple).

Tomorrow I have “general cleaning”, I’ll find out if the mold started the invasion after the rain.

I had this problem in my uni accommodation. The problem was never solved as the university just sent the cleaners in. I took matters in my own hand and although this is super powerful stuff, it works and what’s more it keeps the mold at bay for at least 3 weeks (mine use to last for 6 weeks, even in winter and without the problem being fixed). I used Mr Muscle drain cleaner (yes … drain cleaner). You can use any alkali (I found this to work better than any acidic bleach). All you have to do is smear it on (with gloved hands and mask with windows open for ventilation) and leave it for an hour. Then just wipe it off. It will just come right off. Then what I do is put a thin layer (slightly diluted) on the area and leave it to dry. I should hasten to add though that it also eats away at the paint, so you would see that the colour is a bit faded. But given the risks to your lungs, I’d say I’ll be happier with faded paint.

“M – The word I’m thinking of starts with an ’s’ and ends with a ‘y,’ but it’s not superiority.”

you stubborn American woman Kat! hahahahha

men at better at lots of things than women, esp when it comes to salary negotiations. men are just better at negotiating in general. women are better than men at some things too, i’m sure, but i’ll have to get back to you on it

as for apartment complaints, i’m not surprised

C – I told you, sometimes there’s no difference between laughing and crying. Get well soon!

M – The word I’m thinking of starts with an ‘s’ and ends with a ‘y,’ but it’s not superiority.

GANIG – As you know, my priorities are in order, I already hold excellent jobs in the USA and UK, and you aren’t saying anything I don’t know. However it’s not as simple as me showing up in the USA with a non-American fiance/spouse — there are legally binding financial and immigration burdens on me as the U.S. citizen that I don’t care to go into publicly. But I appreciate your concern nonetheless.

I may still buy a home there, even though we plan to settle somewhere else.

P.S. I don’t consider living in a ramshackle house with mold and occasional basic services to be “exciting.”

ED – Listen here northern person, when you’re given a choice between ‘A’ and ‘B’ and both choices are bad, it comes down to the lesser of evils. The problem is, you can never know if the “new” one is better until you actually live there; it’s not like you can interview the former tenants and get the dirt (although wouldn’t that be great if you could?). I’m reminded of a different comment on this site containing the phrase, “Better the devil you know.” I like the north better, simply because I feel people are nicer and the neighborhood was set up better than this one, but we’re not moving back to EllasDevil territory despite that warm, non-mocking offer. Filakia

Mel – I don’t think they’re living with the same situation because they live in an apartment they actually own and therefore care about, whereas our apartment (we found out) belongs to the landlord’s sister, who lives in a beautiful home with her husband somewhere else. She is unemployed and every euro spent on repairs is therefore money out of her pocket that I’m sure she’d rather use for shopping or whatever. But she’s really no different than any landlord I’ve had in that regard, except Mr. A who was the one landlord in 10 years that fixed things immediately and responsibly. It’s good to hear you’ve had a majority of good experiences.

Your Kos situation mirrors ours now. It’s winter, it’s dry, it’s mild. OK, it rained yesterday, but I think the closet and wall were vulnerable much earlier to moisture (rain, snow from 2 months ago) and are only now showing mold because it took that long to infect the porous material and surface. That’s just my guess.

Graf – Thankfully, we have not seen any roaches or 8-leggers, but I could see where you might have visitors. They find ways to get in through tiny holes and tend to hide anywhere warm and moist. I highly recommend a few of those traps — one near the toilet, two in the kitchen (under the sink and in a cabinet) and one under the radiator; they eat the bait and die somewhere else. It is good to allow air circulation as you said, but because the uninsulated house is so cold in general (like your house), it’s not something we enjoy, especially right after we’ve had a nice warm shower. Brrr!

3ni – The EPA recommends detergent and water, and that has worked so far…we’ll see. I don’t use bleach or plan on using drain cleaner because even when we use it for the drain and have the bathroom door closed and windows open, it’s incredibly toxic (which is the reason it strips paint). Should what I’m doing not work and the landlord not fix the real problem, I will seek safe alternatives.

B – Yes, I’m so demanding, wanting a basic box to live in; I’m sure that your uncle would just mutter, “Ax, einai kseni.” Maybe you should join my fiance is the chauvinistic corner. If the negotiations part is true about men, why did I need to remind him to bargain the rent down and how to do it? Salaries cannot be measured since men earn more than women despite equal education, skills and work ethic because of gender discrimination (worldwide) and patriarchal tendencies (GR); many women are automatically viewed as weak/lesser and therefore have to work twice as hard as any man to prove otherwise, but called bitchy when all they’re doing is acting like a man.

A lot of women think I act like a man so careful who you address, and I’m not afraid to take you on. I have a whole list of things women are better at, proofreading their comments is one. But I still love you.

To all – A kitchen cabinet door fell off Friday evening. Maybe I’m on a “Tool Time” DIY show and I just don’t know it.

move out…don’t be malakas

What if people are listening?. In modern Greek, the word malakas is used metaphorically in everyday speech to define the individual who does not get it and repeats the same mistakes over and over again….

S – What’s more malakas? People not listening to what I already said on this subject or giving unsolicited advice?

GANIG – If I move to another house as the last commentator says, and it’s the same or worse than this one, wouldn’t that be repeating the same mistake? Look how many people said they have the same problem. So moving house doesn’t change anything, except we’d waste another 1500+ euros and take two steps back in our goal to leave GR. To me, that’s beyond malakas.

So if you’re saying that I don’t get it, I’ll again point to the fact that we absolutely do get it, which is why we’re saving money to permanently move away and end everything here. We’re not looking for a temporary band-aid. We want to purge the disease forever.

The situation is under control (as I said), we have no guarantee that another house in Athens will be better (as I said), and we’re not interested in delaying our departure from GR (as I said). That’s what I’m talking about regarding not listening to what I said on this subject.

Tora poios einai pio malakas?

I have no quarrel with you or anyone, so I’m not sure why you started down this path with me. But if you’re going to insinuate that I’m malakas (and then call me “the biggest of them all”), I have the right to respond in kind by pointing to the common sense and logic that contradicts what you say, in addition to the weakness in someone’s unsolicited advice to move. It’s not about self-righteousness — it’s about choosing the lesser of evils and fulfilling long-term life goals that don’t concern you. I don’t understand your choice to sink deeper into name calling, but it saddens me because we had such nice rapport (even when we disagreed) until today. I wish you well.

If you publsh my post I will have to tell you bravo, but I am sure you wont………

I was only responding to your name calling of who is a bigger malakas and as it is common among Greeks you “tsimpises” (you took the bate). I would not take it all that seriously Kat and would not remove posts. I wish you well as well.

Kat Reply:
March 29th, 2008 at 18:38

So you’re baiting me now? Jeez. The name calling began with someone else, but you stuck your nose in and joined, so then I responded to him and you. I have a right to remove things that don’t concern the topic of this post or contribute anything to the discussion. I believe readers appreciate being spared from spam, personal attacks and nationalistic monologues, of which 25 percent of comments are. I refuse to promote or give a forum to people who don’t deserve it; there are plenty of other sites offering the kind of content and voice they seek, and I won’t cave to bullying or be smothered by a mob majority.

Mak@kas – I’d be ecstatic to publish your personal attack on me, Albanians and my readers (of which only 22 percent are American), so people could see what kind of person you are. However my policy specifically states that any comments with profanity, racist and mean-spirited language are held in moderation. My aim is also to minimize Google searches on my site for wh*res, anti-Amer!can sentiment and words like g@misou.

It’s ironic that you say “we” and “us” — I assume you mean Greeks — as if you speak for all Greeks in the world, and “here” (which I assume means Greece) even though you live in Gravesend, UK. And bravo to you for gaining such a full picture of me by reading 20 posts of 215 total in under 45 minutes. Thavma!

Thank you for taking the time to notice someone as worthless as me. I hope you find happiness in your life so you can leave others in peace. Sto kalo!

Hi Kat,

Love your site, and just don’t understand why there are so many nationalists in and outside Greece. But, you are a kind person to publish comments from mean people.

What is it in Greece with racism, nationalism and $exism all rolled into one? Can’t you (adult) people sort out your own brain functioning? I mean, when I was 17 years old I had some silly ideas a bit like these, but for Christ’s sake…

Patience, Kat, that is what is needed, along with tolerating malakes.

Kat, if you find any interesting insects, please send the to me. We (entomologists) love them!

Cheers

We’ve got mould too. I found a good spray that cleans it up. I’m going to look for a dehumidifier because I found some fuzz on the back of the bed, up against the wall. When they built the house, they had these two holes in the wall where they put pieces of wood in, to support the scaffolding or something, and they never properly filled them up. One of them is near a corner of our bedroom, and the other is in our dining room. I’ve noticed that that’s where the mould is worst.

I get pretty grumpy about how this house was built, but after your post, it doesn’t seem so bad.

Love this thread, paidia!

Am lucky not to have the landlords you guys had/have, (esp. you, Kat). For us Americans in Larissa/Tyrnavos area, landlords had to meet certain requirements before they could rent/lease out their units to US Military personnel, or their names/properties would not get recommended . I think the same thing applies too in Souda Bay/Chania. Everything is in black & white. Just like in the US, there were pre (moving in) and post (moving out) inspections by one of the Housing (local national) employee, the landlord and the tenant. Both parties are called in onbase and every single provision of the contract is explained before they initial and sign the bilingual contracts. Contracts are notarized and, of course…stamped! (what’s up with the Greeks’ fascination with blue rubber stamps? ) Our security deposit is used as our last month rent. I had my receipt every single month delivered to me, sometimes with (used Carrefour) bags full of fresh produce or a tray of freshly homemade pita. Everything I asked and (few) complaints were done and resolved within 24 hours. Heck, I was paying 800 euros for a 300 euro Larissa apartment, and I stayed there for almost 4 years. I practically paid off their mortgage!…. I’m sure without the Navy Housing Office’s “divine intervention” (so to speak), I could’ve/would’ve experienced your miseries too. But bless my landlord’s and his family’s hearts….they’re genuinely good people, and (were trained to become) good landlords!

I gave the family an open invite to visit me in the US and my landlord’s son came and stayed with me for 2 months when I was stationed in VA. His exact words were: “I wish I could live here, Why would you want to leave the US and retire in Greece”? , and all I could tell him was: “Why the hell not?” It was easier said than done ,of course, because am still caught up in a maze called “Greek Bureaucracy” here, ironically, in the US of A. !

Former Butterfly: True enough, Greeks are nothing but talk. I’ve experienced that more than once (I’ll share my stories on a different post). They love to yell and scream, with all the possible hand gestures known to man, and are very confrontational, but when it comes to actual “mano a mano”, they don’t have the cajones. Greeks can “talk to talk”, thats all! They don’t know or are afraid of the concept of “walk to walk” because theyd rather sit for hours and drink a cup of a low quality 4 euro coffee and chase it with dozen tall glasses of water and smokes . (Darn, I miss going to the cafe bars ). Anyway, As a “mixed/mutt” (Filipino/Hawaiian and Chinese-Japanese/Spanish) American, the uninformed locals have always regarded me as (drum roll)…KINEZOS, but thanks to my Hawaiian genes, am bigger and better built than the average and/or regular Greek, so when they (men, women, old or young, or bigger/taller/heavier than me…I really don’t care) raised their voices at me and acted like they would start a fight, or were intimidating/provoking me, I learned to stand up, scream back louder than them, take a step forward, advance a bit, and sometimes do a “I’m f@!#k*g American, and I’m gonna kick your a$$, mofo” stance. It never failed me. It worked and still does. I guess since they thought I was kinezos, that I would do a Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee numbers on them. ! (Of course, it helps too that I know most, if not all, of the bad words/phrases in the modern Greek language :). To a point where my Greek friends would use me as their “armor/bouncer” whenever they got into verbal altercations with their fellow makakas. “Ti thes, malaka/p@$#na?” never sounded so sweet!!… and what’s even sweeter than bullying the bully, eh? Of course, that’s something I never did, do or will do in the US..but hey, when you’re in Rome, do as the…(well, you know the line).

Just my observation though (and I don’t want to start a fight here): I never had/have issues with the Northern Greeks.. I find the northerners nicer, politer and friendlier. The southerners,, on the other hand are (you guys fill in the rest)……Is this just me? Hmmm..talk amongst yourselves..and post

Kat: My female Greek-American friends, especially the ones who were born and raised in the US but repatriated to Greece, say: “The problem with Greek boys, is…they turn into Greek-men”. Po po po! .. F.Y.I.: None of them are married to Greek bo…err…men.

M – I’m used to it. It’s not like I didn’t know what I was in for when I started this site. I haven’t been disappointed or surprised, believe me. People are very predictable.

S – LOL! Your comment really made me laugh. Thanks for that! You can have all the bugs you want.

T – I’m starting to think that perhaps we have the same issue in the bedroom because it grows on either side of the bed, not anywhere else, so this building likely had improper filling after the scaffolding was taken off also. Glad I could make you feel better about your situation with my “worse” predicament.

D – I think boys are boys all over the world, no matter what their nationality is. To me, my fiance is just a man and he’s really no different from men of other countries I’ve dated. He’s just the best one, which is why I’m marrying him.

I forget sometimes he’s Greek because he knows less about Greece than I do, he’s not proud to be Greek, he doesn’t talk to his mom every day or even every week, and he’s probably more American than I am in many respects. If you heard him speak, he speaks like an American, which comes from growing up with the American Embassy’s Defense Attache’s son, and he uses colloquial slang from British TV shows.

The only way you can get rid of mold is to tear the section and or the entire wall out and start from scratch. Also, not sure if they sell it there, but here in the states there is a paint call Kilz that conceals the mold and I believe it helps keeping the mold from becoming airborne.

Could you please write something up about the Greek legal system, when it makes sense to sue, and when not. Having been ripped off, yeah stupid yank, I’d be grateful.

Kat Reply:
December 8th, 2013 at 23:00

I appreciate the request and trust placed in my advice, but a simple article wouldn’t be sufficient to cover every situation. In general, it’s best to do thorough screening and tap every resource available (Greek friends, learn the language, research, instinct, etc.) to avoid being ripped off to begin with. Granted, that’s a lot more difficult in today’s economic climate.