Living in Greece

A practical guide to moving, living, working & traveling in Greece, plus musing and misadventures from an American in Athens

Cockroaches and courthouses, landlords and leases in Athens


On the old-school Saturday Night Live, Eddie Murphy did a skit called “Prose and Cons” as Tyrone Green, a tenant in jail reciting his poem “Images” on an alleged incident. The video version is a lot funnier, but NBC removes anything that infringes on DVD sales, so I can only present plain script.

Dark and lonely
on a summer night,
kill my landlord,
kill my landlord.
Watchdog barking,
do he bite?
Kill my landlord,
kill my landlord.
Slip in his window,
break his neck.
Then his house,
I start to wreck.
Got no reason,
what the heck?
Kill my landlord,
kill my landlord.
C-I-L-L, my land-lord.

When I look back at the landlords I’ve had in Greece, it makes me sigh with relief to know that the next home I rent or buy will be in another country. I’m looking forward to it, in fact.

Las Cucarachas

The first apartment I rented upon arriving in Greece was advertised in the Athens News and located on a pedestrian street in Plaka. Although it had no cars, I could hear the groan of traffic on the main road, beeping of horns and putt-putt of motorcycles passing under the window. Whatever toxic smell of pollution I detected at the beginning had dissipated with time and tolerance…kind of scary. During Carnival, squeaky bats and general merriment lingered until late evening, and the church next door always woke me on Sunday morning when I’d returned from clubbing only an hour before.

My landlord was a self-proclaimed artist who made primitive clay figures, such as “woman laying naked in the sea,” and he took the meaning of his name very seriously. Theodoros (gift of God) spent all of this time in his studio creating originals and hitting on mature foreign women that he convinced to purchase them. His conquests and other bodily functions could often be heard through the thin wall we shared.

After three months of parking his motorcycle in front of my door, which he refused to move and reprimanded me for even touching, not giving me a proper contract or receipts — it was an illegal sublet — and cockroaches the size of yams crawling through my apartment (shoes were always required, as were lids on pots), I decided to look for another place. I gained independence on March 25th. Two years later, his studio went bankrupt and his apartment rented to someone else.

How I learned the word dikastiria

AA was a quiet and eclectic landlord I found in a now bankrupt English-language publication with several apartments awash in marble around the center. I took the less tacky one that my friend K called the “submarine” because it was partially submerged under a medical building but had an open private stairway, large sunny windows and courtyard. The only minus to its location was it faced the American Embassy and was prone to daily rioting.

When I asked for a rental contract and receipts, he said that a lease would be drawn up, and there would be no issues with receipts. A month goes by, no lease and no receipts. I also found out the phone could receive incoming calls but not dial out. He explained that a French girl had run up the bill to 300 euros and never paid, so it would stay that way until he found the money to pay it off.

When rent came due, I said I wouldn’t pay anything and move out until a lease was drawn up and the rent lowered because he wrongly assumed I was a rich American. He proceeded to offer me a handwritten contract, and I demanded that he sign receipts acknowledging my rent — my request, it turns out, was a good move. In a matter of weeks, things in my life were already chaotic with work, Greek lessons and bureaucracy, so moving again was the last thing on my mind.

The next month, I found out he had a key to my apartment and felt it was perfectly appropriate to drop by unannounced because he called and I hadn’t answered my phone. How did I find out? My boyfriend and I caught him. His explanation was, “Well, you’re not supposed to be home; you didn’t answer the phone.” Another time, I came home from work and found a used coffee cup and saucer in the living room. I don’t drink coffee.

I changed the locks, paid the rent and gave a spare key to a trusted friend in touch with my lawyer before I left to accept a job outside Greece, when my ex-boss failed to pay me and produce a document necessary for my work permit.

Three international money orders sent by FedEx to my landlord to cover rent and three months later, I came back to find the locks changed and someone else living inside. I followed legal advice and asked police to accompany me with a locksmith, while a photographer documented the event of opening and removing my things with the permission of the new tenant. In addition to missing money, sentimental items I’d gathered from travels around the world and my deceased mother were stolen. Charges were filed.

There was a legal mediation, but it bore no fruit. AA denied taking rent, denied having my deposit, denied stealing anything, denied everything. In fact, he claimed that I owed him money for the enormous phone bill left by the French woman, electricity and damages, all totaling 2000 euros. We showed photos to him and his lawyer that documented the removal of my things, airbills, bank confirmations and signed receipts for the deposit, phone (I never used), handyman bills I paid, electricity and consistent rent payments. His lawyer resigned that day, and we filed suit.

Over five years, my case had been called, delayed, called, delayed, called again, delayed again and called again at the dikastiria (judicial courts). Each time, I paid a lawyer to do nothing, hired a translator to do nothing and inconvenienced four witnesses to do nothing. A whole lot of money was flying out of my pocket for a whole lot of nothing. The law forbids you to abandon the legal process once it starts, so I saw it through to the end of six years to finally reach a guilty verdict and was awarded money and damages. AA never appeared in court, in fact I saw him only once — he was offering money to a young man in exchange for $ex outside an army camp. How do I know that? The young man was my friend B, and he said ‘no.’

Police have done nothing to enforce the arrest warrant, and I have not seen a red cent…and I know I never will.

Too many landlords

Mr. A was a respectful man who willingly offered me a lease stamped at the eforia, relinquished every set of keys to the apartment and took pride in promptly fixing things whenever an issue needed attention. He understood from the beginning that I would be commuting between countries and said I could prepay or pay when I came back; he also called in advance and requested the loan of a key if something needed repair or inspection.

I’d been told by neighbors that he wasn’t a nice man before Alzheimer’s set in, but I never knew that part of him and he was always kind to me. When he needed the apartment for his son, I was truly sad he wouldn’t be my landlord anymore. He still smiles and says ‘hello’ when I see him on the street, and I’ll always remember him and his family fondly.

The only complaint I had was that he could see directly into my apartment from his apartment across the street, to which his son said he’d remedy with iron curtains and a jungle of plants after I moved out.

My primary challenge with this apartment was that it wasn’t completely mine. Miss GK from Germany left her furniture and plants behind and had no immediate plans to retrieve them, and I was required to sign a contents lease and pay rent for them even though I didn’t want any of it. When she finally came for them after two years, she gave me two weeks notice to rearrange my life in New York and fly to Athens to meet her and liquidate everything. Since this was unreasonable to both me and my boss unless I wanted to get fired, and there was no way I could get plane tickets without paying exorbitant prices, I wired money to an account and had a friend pay for the few items I wanted and communicate anything that came up.

Upon arriving in Athens months later, the things I purchased and paid for had been sold off and the things I didn’t want were still inside. I was told, “these gifts were left as a favor” — a washing machine that was broken before I moved in, an oven that burned things, cheap ugly furniture, a no name broken stereo (I already had a Sony). So not only was I forbidden to remove anything and forced to pay for furniture I never wanted for two years, but I also never made this space my home with my own furniture and got stuck with getting rid of everything in the end. Excellent! :D

Office Café

I told Mr. P, one of the most polite and class acts I’ve met, that I only needed the office space he had for three months. He said it was no problem, and I could have my deposit back. His sister, that’s another story.

I gave a deposit and rent for three months up front and received a lease and receipts in return. Whenever I was gone for more than a week, I came back to find someone had used my office as a leisure space to kick back, smoke, have coffee and watch TV. When I terminated the lease, she understandably kept the deposit for my last month’s rent. But she refused to give her correct AFM to file my taxes unless I paid nine more months of rent. I felt this was blackmail since my intentions were stated and approved from the beginning. Basically, she took my money without paying taxes and made it impossible for me to claim it on my tax return, despite having receipts.

Good, bad and ugly

Upon moving back to Athens full-time, I visited Mr. A and his family to see if there was any mail and bring them a gift for their honesty and kindness over the years. They mentioned having best friends down the street with an apartment for rent that just came available — a phone call was made, Mrs. C appeared, Mr. A gave me an excellent reference as a tenant, and I took the apartment. A proper lease and receipts followed.

I loved this apartment. It was only two years old, had modern sliding doors with double glass, insulation, a proper video screen to see people downstairs before buzzing them in, a huge balcony, self-controlled heating, hardwood floors, lots of closets and a kitchen that matched the color of my komboloi.

But something happened after the first year, which was about the time I transferred to Miami for work and lost my father. When I came back, I found that the toilet float was cheap and broken, and water had been running for an undetermined period. This amounted to a new toilet float costing 9 euros and a water bill of 140 euros, with my landlord refusing to pay even a small portion. In looking at my lease, I realized my renewal contract had been changed to a lease assigning all maintenance to me, instead of the original lease I’d signed that assigned responsibility to the landlord. I hadn’t noticed until then, being preoccupied with changing countries and arranging funerals. Fine, so I paid.

This was followed by a scene on the street in which she screamed at me in Greek (not in English, which is the language she usually used) about how I was a poor tenant, never paid anything on time and tried to cheat them. I believe this was intentional so everyone could hear and understand. I couldn’t go door-to-door to show receipts or other evidence to the entire neighborhood to prove she was wrong, so I let my reputation be smeared. She blamed the change in our relationship on my attitude. If attitude meant I wouldn’t be a doormat, then I suppose that’s what I had.

Over three years, she dropped by unannounced whenever she saw my light on, sometimes as late as 22:30 to look at an alleged leak or for nothing in particular. My friends and boyfriends witnessed her behavior and wondered if perhaps she wasn’t well.

My repeated requests to call in advance were ignored, and she got other people to buzz her into the building if I would not. If I ignored her when she came to the front door, she would pound on the door, yell my name in the hallway and use a key she claimed to not have to let herself in. I got used to bolting the door from the inside, and my lawyer advised me to call the police if it happened again. It came to the point I only dealt with their son, who was a truly nice person and is still a friend.

When I finally moved out, there was no dickering over money, just a lot of dour faces and unwarranted comments about the cleanliness of the apartment, despite the fact it was spotless and I’d hired someone to professionally clean it against the advice of Greeks who told me to “f___ them.”

Hot and cold

The last thing I needed after calling police to report a threat from an ex, getting engaged and preparing to leave for India for a month was to move house a few days before departure. But that’s what I did.

My fiancé insisted we look at a place that my future sister-in-law found for us in the north via her real estate agency. Stating my objections from the beginning (and further objections upon seeing the place) fell on deaf ears, and it was clear that this might be the first of many compromises necessary in my future as a couple. My fiancé, who’d never lived away from home or signed a lease before, assured me he could handle it and did not need me to come along to flush out terms or size up our new landlord. He came to regret this decision.

Because the icebox never reached beyond 16°C in winter and exceeded 45°C in summer, we moved our life into the living room to essentially camp around the two heaters or two air conditioners to feel comfortable. Instead of being two grown adults with careers, we were reduced to “starving student” status of 20 years ago. I felt demeaned and humiliated.

Each month revealed a new hidden delight to my original objections of no insulation, no proper roof, too many dogs, noisy kids downstairs, prehistoric doors, shabby tentes, cheap roller doors, no storage and bad floor plan. First month, we discover the advertised and confirmed self-controlled heating is actually central. Second month, we discover that there is kinokrista, which contradicts the advertised “no kinokrista.” Third month, the electric bill comes for the past four months and we’re expected to pay 80 percent of a 280 euro bill, even though we didn’t live here the first two months and were in India the third month with only the refrigerator running. Fourth month, the landlord asks us to pay money for gardening (three rose bushes and a tree), and we refuse; then the water bill arrives and it’s revealed that our meter is actually shared with another apartment on the ground floor.

In addition, we were forbidden to have the electric/water bills in our name and refused any reimbursement of repairs to a home that was poorly constructed and falling apart. When we left that apartment, she refused to give us back our deposit or retrieve our TV antenna from the roof. She’s been unable to rent the apartment since we left in November 2007. I’m not shocked.

So I basically went from having everything in my name to again having nothing in my name, and the housing situation is no better than it was when I first arrived a decade ago unless I’m willing to spend my entire salary on rent. It’s like time warped back to 1997, and I’m back to the same feeling of being uprooted and left to dangle, despite my efforts to put down roots in a country that I’ve invested 11 years of my money, heart and soul.

Necessary sidenote

In telling stories about landlords past and present, or any story for that matter, I am neutral on the subject of nationality because I feel people are people all over the world. Others, however, bring it up with the hope of blaming “foreigners.” Antagonists will be disappointed to learn that none of my landlords are or have been foreign.

California cakewalk

Comparing any single residence I’ve rented in Greece to a lifetime of rentals elsewhere, I can see I had it pretty good. This includes when I paid rent to live in my parents’ house and adhere to their rules, which was the worst of both worlds. This includes the time I found a patent leather heeled shoe from my bedroom closet in the front garden after contractors painted my kitchen. This includes the time I found out my roommate was a exotic male dancer at Latex-a-Go-Go and flew into a rage when I ran out of toilet paper to steal.

People tell me that owning a house is a lot of responsibility and renting is easier. I beg to differ. Responsibility doesn’t scare me. ;)

In the News

Man in Thessaloniki rents flat to multiple tenants, takes deposits
More than half of 301 courthouses to shut down” — To Vima
Court fees up 500-1000 percent” — Eleftherotypia
Man posing as owner rents apartment to 11 different people” — To Vima

Related posts

One apartment, hold the mold
Stay warm, save money, save the planet
Give me a break!

Image from metrics


  rositta wrote @ June 6th, 2007 at 17:38

Wow, what a story…definately time to buy a house…ciao

Kat Reply:

Hi Rositta – Yeah, I was thinking it was too long and might lose readers because of it, but I couldn’t figure out where it should be split in half.

I wish it were only a story and not my life ;) I’m really looking forward to having a home again!

  Cheryl wrote @ June 8th, 2007 at 01:07

Had enough, huh? I really hope that my husband isn’t too disappointed when we move back. He is really optimistic. I am more realistic.

MIL and SIL were robbed last week while they slept…in there own home. Yes, this can happen anywhere, I know, but it happened just doors away from where we will be staying for our first few months in Greece. And, yes, the door was locked.

Good luck with your next move wherever and whenever it will be. Feel free to contact me directly whenever you want. You’ve got my email address!! :)

Kat Reply:

Cheryl – We’ll still be here when you and K get here, so I hope we’ll get to meet you, though I realize you will have a ton of things to do in order to settle in. (Feel free to use my email also).

The thing is, I was ready to move last year and my then boyfriend popped the question. The deal breaker was he had to agree to leave Greece, and it turns out that was no problem. If circumstances arise where one or both of us are tied to this country, we’ll negotiate those changes when/if they arise.

Either way, there’s no way we’re renting again! After 10 years, I need to feel like I have a home.

And yes, robbery is a reality no matter what neighborhood or country you live in. I was robbed in an affluent area with steel security doors. These guys even got my email out of my stolen laptop and taunted me. Police weren’t able to do anything. I’m sorry to hear it happened to someone so close to you. I hope everything is OK.

  Cheryl wrote @ June 8th, 2007 at 01:27

I just want to add that I do know that this post was about landlords and renting. I too rented in Greece before and the kinokrista spread rumors after we left…we didnt pay rent and yada, yada, yada. My FIL lived in the place after we left and when he heard he straightened everyone out…and dumped a bucket of water on somebody on the street…from the balcony. What’s important is to notice a pattern of behavior that is generally accepted as normal , so just prepare to be screwed.

I know that there are bad landlords everywhere but I have never heard of so many in one place. I am just a little edgy at the moment! :)

Kat Reply:

About what you said about landlords, I’m sure that not everyone is as unlucky as me, so don’t be scared. Mr. A was a great landlord! Most people I know have homes given to them by their parents, buy a house or rent from someone they’ve known a long time, therefore it’s difficult to compare cases or gauge a majority. I’ve been told I’m too trusting, but I’d rather be more trusting and attract that kind of good energy than go into everything with skepticism because that only makes one’s fears a reality (if you get what I mean).

  F. Anna wrote @ October 26th, 2007 at 17:37

Wow, that sounds awful (about the robbery). Could you tell us what neighborhood that took place in and a little more about it if you don’t mind. I found Athens rather safe when I was there so I’m surprised to hear about that.

Kat Reply:

Hi FA – I haven’t seen your name before and nice to meet you :) I’ll answer your other inquiry via email.

Landlord AA was from Kolonaki, and the apartment was near the American Embassy, as I mentioned in the post. He took a bunch of things and never gave them back, even after the court ordered it. All I really wanted was the CD player my deceased father gave me and a sentimental item I bought from the Czech Republic.

I was robbed again in the northern suburbs, while living with a non-romantic male roommate, and we suspect we were watched to learn our patterns and perhaps targeted because we are both well-dressed professionals carrying briefcases and had no parents at home…but who knows? Witnesses say there were two men, but no one was ever arrested.

Cheryl lives somewhere in northern Greece, and Mel (Mel’s Diner) says that she and her husband have trouble with people breaking into the car.

My fiance has caught people midway into breaking into his car in the southern suburbs of Athens; I’ve also had Greek women punch me on the metro without provocation, though I suspect that has more to do with unknown issues personal to them than robbing me.

  Daniel wrote @ October 28th, 2007 at 22:37

I just started to love this website! I must have been lucky, having toured several apartments in my short time in Greece, I think I have been lucky. I felt uncomfortable with our first landlady being “bossy” with things we do such as closing the door to loud or disturbing her sleep by having the noizy AC on during the night… I got used to it and there has been little of problems with the landlords.

I once caught a particular landlord with a “mathematical error” on the bill that would have had us pay almost 100€ more than we should. I approached him on the issue and he quickly recalculated a new real price, no fuss.

And finally, I must have missed out, what does ‘kinokrista’ mean?

Kat Reply:

Hi there, and I’m glad you’ve had good experiences.

Sorry, I forgot to answer the question. A future post will cover aspects of how to rent a home, what to look for in a lease and other issues, but for now I’ll tell you that kinokrista roughly translates to common expenses.

Common expenses of a building could include petrol for heating, elevator maintenance, cleaning person, gardening expenses, repairs, improvements, water, electricity, and they’re all shared by the tenants. The share you pay depends on the person doing the calculations and/or the square meters of your apartment. If there’s independent heating (you control it) and not central heating, it will also depend on your usage.

Be aware that it’s not always fair. I lived in a separate apartment outside a building to which it was connected, and still had to pay for the elevator despite my protests that I never entered or had a key to get in the building, let alone used the elevator. I have also left in winter and was instructed to shut off my independent heating (which I did), but still had to pay 350 euros in petrol when I came back because it had snowed in Athens (aka, people were cranking up the heat) and “that was my share” when they purchased it. When I protested to my very reasonable and otherwise kind building manager, I was told “that was my share” and my actual usage was irrelevant. Friends all tell me this is common practice although there are exceptional cases.

Not all buildings have kinokrista, and some landlords build the price into the rent to make it easier to manage.

  Nelsie wrote @ November 16th, 2007 at 02:24

I rent a flat in a very nice part of Athens (Kolonaki) and the landlady immediately helped me to get an AFM so that the lease could be registered with the Eforia and anything I have complained about has been fixed immediately, adn the landlady is not cheating me on the rent despite the fact that I speak nil Greek… In England on the other hand, god, they are petty, a lost key and they deduct 500 pounds from your deposit for having to change the door, forget to clean behind the fridge and they will deduct 600 pounds for a new top range fridge… etc…

In general here in Greece from my short time here, prepare to be cheated and you will be surprised how warm and nice half of the people are, just be extremely careful with taxi drivers! (PS! You are not the only one being kicked/punched/pushed on the metro, I always get it from middle aged women, even though I am a 6’6” tall 23 yo half latino kid and therefore am supposed to look scary and evil, lol).

  jessica wrote @ March 7th, 2008 at 21:21

I was googling “kill cockroaches in Greece” and I found this entry. A pleasant surprise, indeed. :)

It’s been ages since I’ve updated my blog, maybe I should think about it again.

You really know what you’re talking about what with the state of renting in Greece. I feel like your issues were my issues, and the issues of so many other people I’ve spoken to. Thanks for your words, and your light heartedness. It helps me keep on keepin’ on, knowing that someone out there has gone through all this, and can still stand to live here and get up and enter this world everyday.

You, are a hero.

Kat Reply:

J – Thank you and I’m glad you checked in because you disappeared for awhile. Please take care of yourself and let me know if you need something.

  kieron wrote @ March 16th, 2008 at 16:12

All these amazing stories of being robbed, lied to, cheated . . . and punched! What Greece are you guys talking about? I’m glad I’ve never been there, despite the fact I’ve been living in Greece (obviously a different one) for the last twelve years. I’m in Thessaloniki now, I have a two-year lease on an apartment with a landlord who looks after the property and to whom I make a monthly rent deposit into his bank account.

Before that I lived in Chania, Crete . . . OK, some of the rent arrangements there were less formal, but I always got on with my landlords and although they were fiddling on their tax by not declaring rent, it never affected me negatively in any way. Maybe it’s just an Athens thing – never tried renting there.

But generally over the last decade-and-some-years I’ve been listening to horror stories non-Greeks have told me about Greek landlords, Greek bureaucrats, Greek boysfriends, you name it . . . My relationship with the Greeks generally is perfectly civilised, and although it’s true they rarely do things by the book, I have never known myself to be cheated or felt insulted (in any significant way). Maybe I’m just lucky . . . or naive . . .

Kat Reply:

K – I want to second what Scorpion says. An EU citizen such as Nelsie or anyone “looking Greek” has fewer problems. It’s not about being non-Greek.

And for the record, the last house I mention renting in the post was completed by my fiance without me present (on purpose), and he was still lied to, in addition to his cousin (a real estate agent) who secured this contact for us. He’s 100 percent native Greek and so is she. When we called around to rent an apartment in the area we now live, 90 percent of people were rude to him, even asking his profession and net salary (extremely rude), but at least invited him to see the place. I can sound and act Greek to the point some have asked if I’m a mix of nationalities, but there’s no way in hell I look it and therefore will always be treated as someone “lower” no matter what I do or know.

I don’t care about the rudeness and personally don’t mind people doing things under the table, however because the Hellenic Republic forces me to go by the book for my permit as a non-EU “immigrant,” all of my papers must be done by the book — leases, utility bills, IKA, etc. They aren’t my rules, I’m just playing by them.

  The Scorpion wrote @ March 16th, 2008 at 17:14

Kieron? Could you pass for a Greek? I’ve found that foreigners who look like they could be Greek fair better than non-Greek looking foreigners.

  kieron wrote @ March 16th, 2008 at 23:24

Yes, Kat and Scorpion, I think you’ve got a point about looking like a Greek – even more, if one sounds like a Greek (and I don’t only mean fluency in language, but in the kind of attitude one communicates in speech, the greekness of your perceived mindset) then your problems are halved. People know I’m not Greek about three seconds after i open my mouth, but I’ve adopted a lot of ‘protective coloring’ over the years to try and fit in with a way of life I basically like, despite all the frustrations.

In fact, i notice how I switch personalities slightly when I switch languages – I think it’s almost inevitable. I remember once I was abused mildly by a bus driver for getting on his bus while soaking wet from the rain outside. If that had happened in England (my native country), I would have apologised guiltily. As it is, I lashed back with -kai ti perimeneis? Afou brehei exo, ftaio ego?- . And no offence was intended on either side, and none taken. I can’t do that in English.

Two comments about the Greeks:

1) they are – what’s the best word? – ‘brusque’
2) they love to say two words above all others:
a) ohi!
b) apagoretetai!

Once you get used to that, life becomes a little easier.

My girlfriend (a Greek) thinks they love the word apagoretetai because under the Junta, most things were forbidden, and they kind of got used to it. Just a thought.

And I might add that, as an Englishman, I have to say that I find the English abroad to be the worst adapters to other countries’ cultures and the biggest complainers. Long live the Whingeing Pom!

  unicorn wrote @ May 17th, 2008 at 22:55

Hi there!

I’m not capable of expressing how i’m grateful for the great work you did, I just want to say THANKS. This site is exactly what I’m looking for for at least two years.

I was on vacation on Crete with my wife. It was early autumn and we was stunned by the music, nature, attitude and so on.. We decided to come again some day and try to stay as long as we could.

We are both working in IT company. Most of the time we are working at home. So it does not matter much where exactly our home is.

I was looking for a place where to drop an invitation on this site, but did not find more appropriate topic then this one. :) So, whenever you wish to visit Ukraine we can share our flat with you and your relatives. We are not a professional hosts, but we will do our best for free

Ukraine has much in common with Russia (which is on your TODO list as I remember). So, perhaps you will be interested. We live in Odessa (named likely after the ancient greek colony called Odessos). It’s located on the northern coast of the Black Sea.


Kat Reply:

U – First of all, thank you for your kind words and very genuine and generous invitation to Odessa. You never know, we might take you up on it. :) If you move to Crete, you are in a good position to do so having your own work and can get a permit that way by meeting the income requirements. It’s a beautiful island, my favorite in fact.

  Toula wrote @ August 6th, 2008 at 12:59

Geia Sas!!!

I too stumbled onto this blog by mistake.. but boy did I get a kick out of reading your rentals sagas… Reminds me of me when I lived in Greece.

I now live in India, and believe me, things are much worse here.. and on top of all the problems that can come up, rent in Mumbai costs an arm and a leg… Our scungy 2 bedroom apartment here costs double what our beautiful 3 bedroom home in Sydney is rented out for. Go figure… Anyway I guess it will just leave me with lots of fond memories when I am gone from here.

God I miss Greece!!!!!

Enjoy your summer everyone!
Filakia xx

Kat Reply:

T – Hey! Doesn’t anyone come to my site on purpose??? ;) I spent 5 weeks in various parts of India, and I saw homes that ranged from huts and boxes to luxurious mansions. Our crappy, moldy, uninsulated noisy apartment near the beach road in affluent Athens costs more than a modern 2-bedroom flat in Brooklyn, NY with a laundry room. I think the same way you do, except instead of memories, I have stories to tell. Wanna change places?

Kalo kalokairi!

  Kosmas wrote @ August 17th, 2008 at 21:21

Hi Kat! Thanks for the comment. I found your whole site very useful but this piece really spoke to my heart…

I will send people interested in renting in Athens to have a look here first! ;-)

Kat Reply:

K – Thanks so much! Renters who have no problem paying 2000 euros/month for a flat in Greece likely enjoy a much different experience. We have no plans to buy a home in Greece because we don’t intend to stay or come back. Our plans are to buy in another country, so we’re renting until we leave.

  The Scorpion wrote @ August 18th, 2008 at 10:06

Kat, I always come to your site on Purpose! :)

  Stratos wrote @ August 20th, 2008 at 15:52

I just came across to your website while googling on the web for some info about living in Greece. Having browsed through your pages I am questioning myself if I really want to come back to Greece… And mind you: If I do come back, it will be based on my contract i have here in the Netherlands and the salary (more or less) that I have here – that means, I will have the foundation to have a quite good life there!!!!

I am an expat myself in the Netherlands and I can tell you definitely that this is not the way that things go around over here… Here things are more transparent and there is a strong protection of the tenant by the state. In any case, I vote as well for a decision to buy a house/apt. over renting one. It;s then your responsibility and that makes things easier there :-)

In general I would say that in Greece an individual should try and have “business” of any sort only with the privately held companies. In fact the bigger they are, the better for the individual. When things fall within the private sector, although usually more expensive, they are more secure and rules are met and often with great satisfaction – I believe…

One last comment: while I am amazed by the size and the visiting rate of your site, I cannot not think why on earth you have been staying in Greece and why did you ever go back there after the first time you left the country…? I am pretty much sure that you have had this question before, but I make it anyway :-) The only thing I can think of is that you must have a kind of love and hate relationship with this city/country/culture

In all cases, I will read through the rest of your pages and then I will double think about it before I move back to Greece lol


Kat Reply:

S – People ask this question a lot. I’m not required to explain my life choices to strangers, but I’ve answered it several times, as recently as last month.

You would have a much easier time being as you are three things I am not and never will be: a) Male, b) Greek, and c) An EU citizen without the need for a work permit. If you are under 35, that’s a bonus; the cutoff for women is under 30, which I am not. Another bonus is you work for an American company and already have your work and salary sorted, so good for you and LOL and you should move back. That isn’t an option for me, since my work permit in Greece depends on whether I am employed in Greece (private sector, big or small has made no difference in my case whether treatment is better and rules are followed). You can’t and shouldn’t compare our situations at all — it’s night and day.

  Stratos wrote @ August 20th, 2008 at 18:44

Hey Kat

Thanks for sharing that post with me, and indeed, you were not required to explain to me the choices in your life. Allow me to say so, but you do write about your daily life and you do share your point of view on the ways things work there. I find it only natural if people ask you that, since you initialize the discussion by sharing your experiences – even if the intent is to be humorous. I never meant to offend you, if I did, by asking you that.

Bear in mind that Greeks who moved abroad are damned as well: While they are away, they should always honour their fatherland, almost by a way of tax payment! But, when they come back, they are also seen as foreigners and not as “true” Greeks anymore

Thanks again for your posts! Great writer, you are! :-) Ever thought of collecting them and making a book? Like Sedaris? :-)

In a way reading these experiences help me remember the reasons I left Athens.


Kat Reply:

You didn’t offend me at all, den peirazei. When I started this digital journey, there were plenty of stories about people living in Greece, but they were about tourists, people with money, expats in retirement, expat women who married Greeks, or Greeks coming back. My intent in sharing is to give a realistic glimpse into what life is like in Greece for an unmarried, career-minded, working, non-Greek immigrant woman; many people across all nationalities identify with me, some do not. People are used to Americans sharing their whole life, and the Greek language does not have a word for privacy, but I do value mine and many subjects are kept out of public view. If/when I write a book about my life in Greece, everything will come out then.

True, Greeks from abroad are damned as well. I’m aware of this, which is the reason my articles acknowledge discrimination in Greece across the board no matter what your ethnicity, age or origin. Even my fiance who was born and raised in GR is criticized for being a “traitor” because he speaks American English without an accent, does not believe GR is the best country, loves English sitcoms, hates football, and wants to immigrate abroad. I believe it’s wrong to judge people this way.

You are not the first person to mention Sedaris, so I suppose I should read something he wrote now. ;) Thank you for coming to the site and hope to see you again!

  George wrote @ August 23rd, 2008 at 09:17

Wow! :-)

I came to your site to research getting dual citizenship, and I ended up spending the next several HOURS reading through various pages (and I’m not done yet!).

This is a great site, and I will refer all I know who are Greek, of a Greek heritage (like myself), and/or are planning to travel to (or work in) Greece.

I am sorry to hear of your rental nightmares, and I will definitely think twice if I ever decide to reside there for any significent period of time.

I do have this fantasy of buying a place in Greece and spending time there every year (once I retire and have the time) – all the while getting in touch with my heritage. I will DEFINITELY do my homework before ever doing this.

Again, thank you for this great site!

Kat Reply:

Wow, what a compliment. Thank you for stopping by and staying for longer than intended. You’re always welcome to whatever I have available, to make a comment or ask a question. And yes, definitely do your homework before taking the leap. Too many times, people get caught up in dreams and forget about reality.

  unicorn wrote @ August 24th, 2008 at 18:41

Hi Kat,

We are used to host our traveling friends. So, if you suddenly decide to come, it wont take us by surprise. (note that my email address has changed, so if you have sent something, resend plz)

Our “good position” is quite limited by our government.
Consider this:
1) ukrainian residents are not allowed to have accounts in foreign banks w/o explicit permit (which is almost impossible to acquire). Doing so makes a crime and will cost 3-5 years in jail. (luckily it is
ok to have foreign account while you are outside of Ukraine, but you should close it before coming back)
2) it is almost impossible to get a loan (prove of income) in any european bank, due to Ukrainian tax and bank papers are not trusted anywhere outside our country. (and I see no reason why the embassy would be less suspicious). I think, the single way to prove our financial status is to show the cash (~30 000 euro)
when applying for a special visa and residence permit, and even in this case i’m really not sure it will work anyway.

— Where did you come from?
— Ukraine.
— Ah, nice place to come from!
(sad, but true)


  dwain wrote @ November 1st, 2008 at 08:44

This is somewhat ‘comforting’ to read, at least to let us know that some of the experiences that are happening with our friends here aren’t unique. Two weeks after moving into their apartment, 2 female colleagues are being kicked out for being ‘loud, rude, disrespectful Americans’ who go clubbing and arrive home at 6 in the morning and wake up the whole neighborhood. On top of that, it is apparently a ‘party’ if you have 3 people over for dinner at 9:30.

The best though is that it was supposedly ‘made clear’ in the ‘verbal part of the contract’ that neither of the girls was allowed to have a boyfriend over. Of course nothing of the sort was ever mentioned.

Kat Reply:

D – This is utterly ridiculous. I’ve read some of the stories you’ve written about your landlord (also stupid), and now your friends’ landlords. First of all, most people are always bragging how, “Greece is very free,” so WTF? Second, the majority of people I know don’t have dinner until 21:30 or later, so again WTF? Third, are these people saying that Greeks don’t go clubbing and arrive home at 6:00 or are they saying that Americans aren’t allowed to do this? Fourth, these people should not be spying on these girls to know whether they have a boyfriend come over or not. Plus, if it’s not written down, there is no agreement. Who are these nosy a$$ people with no lives of their own?

Last and not least, I seriously doubt Americans are louder than Greeks, especially since your colleagues hold jobs in which they set an example for others. To me, these landlords are clearly uptight, prejudiced/discriminatory in some way or just looking for an excuse to b!tch about anything, which I suppose are all related.

People who don’t have issues with landlords are usually: Greek, look Greek/European in appearance, male, own their own home or got their apartment through a referral/friend.

  dwain wrote @ November 1st, 2008 at 13:57

You’re right on all points about the landlord situation with my colleagues. The irony of their accusations was the most frustrating part because they were so oblivious to it. We suspect that there may have been a family disagreement over renting to Americans (another friend was shown a home by a realtor and then refused because he’s American), so they’re picking a fight to try and force them out. No “Equal Housing” here!

We’re trying to determine what the consequences are for breaking a 2-year contract. The realtor and our HR director were both adamant that the 2-year contract was typical, a great disappointment because we were making this decision after only being in Athens for a week and knowing nothing about the city. In the States, the worst consequence would be losing our deposit; I’ve quickly learned not to assume that it would be even remotely similar here!

Enjoy the November ‘warmth-wave!’

  FMS wrote @ November 2nd, 2008 at 22:01

Dwain: in theory, breaking a rental contract has substantial penalities; in practice, this is Greece… Anyway, who is breaking the contract? If the landlord is insisting on conditions that are not written down and are not “typical”, then he or she is breaking the contract. It sounds as if you are being taken for a ride, so tell the Greeks to **** off. You might also like to lodge a formal complaint for racial discrimination under EC Directive 2000/43, as it seems clear that this is directed against non-Greeks.

  ilia wrote @ December 21st, 2008 at 16:07

When you go looking for a house/flat to buy, do take a long, good look at the neighborhood & neighbors.

A bad landlord/flat you can move away from, a bad neighbor you can’t. There are lots of varieties: the noisy, the snoopy, the unreasonable, the insane…

The worst is a combination of the above, who also happens to be the apartment block manager.

Steer clear of them – hire a PI if you must, or become one before you sign your contract and mortgage.
Good luck

Kat Reply:

Hi Ilia! True, some of my stories about neighbors are in the “Related Posts” at the end of the article. I’ve moved 7 times, and it doesn’t seem to matter — there’s always some of each sprinkled here and there. Oh well. Thanks for leaving a comment today.> :)

  MCK wrote @ April 10th, 2009 at 12:41

Oh my God! I didn’t even think that people like… all of your landlords were real! What most of them did was illegal and taking legal action was the best option! Knowing how “quick” Greek courts are to operate, others would think it was a waste of time and money. In my opinion, however, it’s best to f**k them than to be f**d. I am well aware of the fact that living in Greece as a “foreigner” is difficult and I also know that certain Greeks blame them for everything, but being Greek myself I assure you that they are uncultured and uneducated. Unfortunately, uncultured Greeks are the norm. I hope that you will find a place to call home one day!

P.S. Have you ever considered living in the north part of Greece? I have many English friends who lived in Athens and think their life is kind of easier “up here”!

Kat Reply:

Hi again, MCK. LOL! I like how you put “quick” in quotes. We’ve met cosmopolitan, cultured Greeks and call many of them our friends, so we have some good people around…we just haven’t found a good home! Our jobs require us to be in Athens, unfortunately, so a move north would render us unemployed or employed but (likely) with less favorable situations and salaries than we have now. As you know, it’s not easy to find a good work environment either, whether you’re Greek or foreign. It is nice up in the north, though. Thanks for your concern and commenting again! :)

  Ari wrote @ April 28th, 2009 at 05:08

I am Greek, born and bred in Melbourne Australia. I love Greece but I relate to a lot of what you said.

I look Greek and speak it well, last summer I was in Greece with my Husband (Australian/English) background and Step-son. I felt I had to protect them. The funniest was a gypsy girl who was trying to pickpocket my husband. She nearly died when I told her to get lost in Greek, in a loud scream that even shocked me.

There’s Greeks and there’s Greeks. We vary :)

Kat Reply:

The proper term is Roma, not gypsy. Also, I agree that everyone varies everywhere.

  The Scorpion wrote @ April 29th, 2009 at 08:50

Ari, you should be careful, it’s a SIN to associate Greeks with Turks, Gypsies (Roma is proper term), Albanians etc… In the USA, we have racist ignorant people as well, but what makes an impression on me is that these racist people in the states are obviously miles away, uneducated usually, and the neanderthal type. By contrast, and very scary, is that many racist Greeks seem like normal, highly educated, decent people at first. It’ s only when they start talking about their warped view on how all/most crimes are committed by Albanians, etc that their true colors show.

Kat Reply:

Scorpion, I allowed your comment even though I think you took it a tad too far because Ari’s comment was rather innocent and wasn’t about gypsies. Her point was Greeks are different everywhere. I want to remind everyone what this post is about: It’s about the discrimination and treatment I personally encountered during my tenure as a tenant, and it was told in a straightforward and humorous way. Nothing more.

  Tauros wrote @ April 30th, 2009 at 01:09

For the Scorpion – I beg to differ in several respects. “gypsy” is not the same as “Gypsy”. I accept that Roma is currently the preferred term vice “Gypsy”; but using “gypsy” doesn’t make a person racist. The lower case “gypsy” as a term is often accepted as referring to a lifestyle, not to a race or ethnicity. Further, politically correct (PC) labels change with the years: colored, negro, black, African-American, as an example. The individuals didn’t change; the PC description did.

I agree that Greeks can often be hypocritical in their racism, but education has nothing to do it with it. Americans (and I’m be proud to be one) can be just as hypocritical, regardless of their schooling.

Lastly, the Greeks, Turks, Roma and Albanians (and others) are intertwined throughout history. There are certain parts of Athens today where you can stroll for quite some time before hearing a native Greek speaker. If by “SIN” in your first sentence you meant that it’s not PC, I understand. But Greece has been and is a Byzantine country in many ways. It won’t change in that regard for a very long time. But it continues to change in a lot of other respects, and despite the denial of many both here and abroad, the changes won’t stop.

  Shannon wrote @ June 3rd, 2009 at 08:52

Wow this website is a wealth of information, thank you so much for all of it!

My husband and I are planning (dreaming) to move (with the intention/pipe dream of teaching english but willing to do just about any cheap job to get the chance to live in Greece) with pets to Greece. I’ve read all the information on the process of getting them legally able to get in the country and I wonder how “easy” is it to find pet friendly rentals? We have a miniature doxie (8 pounds) and a small cat who are members of the family and I’d love ANY information on this while we research this idea!

Kat Reply:

Before going to your question, keep in mind that you and/or your husband will need to have EU citizenship or a way to secure a residence/work permit to live/work in Greece, and it is not cheap to live here.

Finding pet-friendly rentals is a bit harder because most owners and fellow tenants don’t want the extra damage or noise that pets are perceived to cause. This is based on the fact the majority of people never train their pets to behave, so they’ll bark at everything and generally wreak havoc.

Places that allow them are usually: A monokatoikia (single family home), mezoneta (maisonette or townhome, which are typically more expensive) or rentals that no one else wants (aka, the landlord decided to be more lenient because it’s been empty for so long). The other situation I can think of is the one I’m in; it’s a polykatoikia (complex) with two flats (duplex), and the landlords downstairs have a dog; therefore, they allow tenants with pets. I don’t have any, but if I did I wouldn’t let my pets fraternize with theirs because their dog is rarely washed/full of fleas, a nuisance, scares people and tears up our mail to the point we no longer have it delivered here.

The other thing you need to worry about is how the majority of people in Greece regard cats and dogs. Pets are considered “bromiko” (dirty). You’ll rarely see pets kept inside or well kept. And those that are must be very well guarded, leashed and watched because people put out food or “treats” with poison to kill them. Many don’t consider this cruel and justify it by saying there are too many animals, and this is a form of population control; yet, spaying/neutering is looked upon as cruel because it is said that a pet should have a sex life. I realize it doesn’t make sense to most people (including me) that an animal be given the right to sex and birth but not to life, however I’m just telling you how it is.

I know many people who left beloved pets in their homelands with a friend or relative, if they didn’t intend on staying permanently in Greece. I know others who regretted bringing their pets because they died, were killed or suffered a great deal of stress in transit (see, “Four reasons why pets shouldn’t fly“). It’s something to consider seriously if you really love them.

  Lily wrote @ July 31st, 2009 at 11:50

Things are slowly changing in terms of how pets are treated and regarded I think. Apart from what Kat describes, which is true, I think we are also starting to see people who do love pets, keep them in doors, take care of them, and allow them in rented flats. Others, as in my neighbourhood, are feeding the ones on the street and trying to get them neutered.

After spending many years abroad, I returned to Greece with two cats. The EU Pet Passport scheme meant that it was easy, and there was no hassle at the airport here—they just asked for the pet’s passport.

The best place to try to rent in Athens with pets is close to a park of some sort. I live next to one and note that there are loads of dog owners here, out walking their dogs etc.

Another tip: rent from someone who has advertised their email address. I found while trying to rent that landladies/lords who use email are usually a lot younger and a lot more open minded.

  Makis wrote @ August 15th, 2009 at 14:29

One of my worst experiences in the 9 months I’ve been here is seeing the treatment of animals. While not all Greeks are acting barbaric towards them, I’ve seen so many things that would land a person in jail if they were back in Canada.

There are so many strays. Each garbage can on the islands has a family of cats. Dogs run the streets in Athens. Most of them still wearing the collars they received from their owners. People are constantly poisoning them.

I saw a bag of new puppies with their eyes still closed left in a bag next to a garbage can, a few crawling out into the street and no one even giving a second glance. Really disgusting stuff. No one seems to understand the concept of controlling their pets from breeding.

There was a guy across from us who let his cats continually have litters which he would dispose of promptly. His response to my asking him why he didn’t spay or neuter them was that ‘it’s not natural’. I asked him if it was natural for the kittens to be killed right after they were born. Of course, this was a silly way to think I was informed.

For all its beauty and allure, this really is a different place with different ways and ideas.

The best way I can describe Greece is that it has some of the best and worst things to offer. From the gorgeous land and culture, warm people and lifestyle, to people always seeming to be trying to screw over the next guy, to the appalling state of some neighborhoods in Athens, to rampant corruption, illegal immigration, crime, poor jobs, salaries and social security, pickpockets, red tape etc…

Since I’ve stayed here, 4/5 of my girlfriend’s friends have been robbed, pick pocketed or assaulted (this is in Athens).

My Greek friends say you can never really be secure in Greece. The Greeks have a saying something like ‘the Mother eats her children’.

On thing for sure, this is the best place in the world to be if you can get above (or below) all the shit.

  helen wrote @ October 2nd, 2009 at 06:26

hi, thank god i found ur site. i am looking to rent longterm in thessaloniki; i want to pay up to 550 euros per month. i would like it to be a detached maizonette home, that is no older than 8 years old. 2 bedrooms is enough. i like the modern look, i dont mind it being out of thessaloniki city approx. 20 minute drive. i prefer the north eastern or east suburbs. can u help me find a site that can help me. thankyou

Kat Reply:

The story is about my personal experience of renting properties in Greece. I am not a rental agency. Please help yourself to the website links I provided to start your search.

  Tania wrote @ February 27th, 2010 at 19:53

I actually just came across this website, and I’m so glad! Actually I’m just about to finish high school, and I’m thinking of going to Greece for college. Is it ok if you can email me back? I would extremely appreciate it. Thank you!!

Note from Kat: As stated inComments, Questions and Contacting Me,” I do not offer personal consultation due to my personal/professional commitments. This entire website, put together over many years, offers a wealth of free information not found anywhere else. All best.

  Jane wrote @ August 6th, 2010 at 18:53

Hi, this is urgent and you say to post on a comment page. We rented a house, privately, for two years. We find we cannot afford to live here any longer, and the house is like a war zone in summer with the children; we have none and specifically asked if it was quiet. So we are going. We are happy to pay the full year rental for just 8 months. However, seems like the landlord is going to insist we leave things we bought to make it comfortable, like fridge freezer, lawn mower, etc etc as compensation for not staying second year. As the agreement was not stamped at a tax office and is just typewritten by estate agent, can she insist on anything like this? Can she hold us to a second year? Our health is deteriorating by the day so we do not want any major arguments. Any advice appreciated. Thank you, Kat

Kat Reply:

Hi Jane,

Life has become expensive in Greece, and not just in monetary terms, so I empathize with your decision.

The most important thing you need to know is your two-year rental agreement is illegal if it was not stamped at the tax office (eforia). Illegal. That means your landlord is pocketing extra money by committing tax evasion and in a position to insist on nothing. Offering to pay a year’s rent for 8 months is overly generous, considering (s)he will likely not return the 1-3 months deposit you put down.

I understand your need for peace and parting on somewhat good terms, but you need to counter his/her demands with what you know as politely as possible. Should the landlord make trouble, ask a Greek-speaking friend to step in and not hesitate in calling the financial crimes and tax evasion hot line at ‘1517.’ I’m sure they’d love to audit your landlord and assess a fine.

Please write back if you need further assistance, and thank you for trusting me to dispense advice.

  Matt wrote @ October 11th, 2010 at 19:06

Hi Kat,

Aussie living in Greece for 11 years. Find your site a great source of info and follow the Tweets with interest.

My next step (hurdle) I am trying to accomplish is to buy some land, which of course leads to loads of paper chasing and the normal fun when dealing with the public offices. It has only taken 2 years and I am still not finalised in being able to purchase land.

Had a look around the site but was wondering if you had any information or knowledge on this subject. Non-EU purchasing a house / land in Greece?

Thanks again

Kat Reply:

Hi Matt,

You are a brave man (and poor you). A lawyer and I are set to collaborate on an article about buying property in Greece as a non-EU citizen, but nothing is posted at the moment because, as you may know, I like to combine first-hand experience with official documentation. I have not bought nor do I intend to buy property myself, so I need to find at least 2-3 trusted sources to take notes and share their torture information with me. I know there’s a lot of hearsay and vague explanations, but I cannot help you at the moment.

Thank you so much for coming back. Of course I remember the man who said this website offered the “best, and most accurate information about the joys of living and working in Greece I have managed to read in my 11 years of living here as a non-EU citizen.” I’m glad you like the news tweets; I’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback.

  Matt wrote @ October 26th, 2010 at 11:53

Hi Kat,

Drop me an email if you like and I will be happy to give you more details of the processes I have followed thus far – both positive and negative and all the hearsay in between. You can then use this to help others or at least use to compare to the info you have received as another source.

Happy to help if possible.


Kat Reply:


I sent you an email from my account some weeks ago to take you up on your offer, but there was no reply. Perhaps it landed it your spam.

  Evelyn wrote @ July 28th, 2011 at 21:52

Yia sou,
I am a Greek American and have a house in Athens. I can say that my tenants love living in our homes. There is a waiting list for our properties and we take great pride in knowing that our management company is taking care of things and the tenants are satisfied. My point is that not all landlords are the same such as not all tenants are the same. You have some great information and I wish you the best.

Kat Reply:

I don’t see anywhere in my post or comments (or website) where I say that all landlords, tenants or people are the same, so I don’t see the purpose of stating your point because it’s not contrary to mine.

The post details factual events of my experience over 13 years living in Greece, and there are others who report something similar. It perfectly illustrates your point, but it appears you cannot accept it.

  christine wrote @ October 17th, 2011 at 13:26

Having lived in Greece for 30 years, guess I have become a little too Greek. My husband and I have built two houses, the proverbial prikas for my daughters….and we live in one, as a family and I decided to rent out the one next door…of course not wanting to pay tax…cash in hand, which worked wonderfully for 4 or so years.

Then a British couple who were living in another village, asked if they could rent it…we agreed, and they paid me on the 1st of the month for a year, even tho they spent the winter in the uk…When they went home at the end of last summer, they said they would pay the rent into my uk bank account, which was agreed, no rent went in…then they came back during May and proceeded to give me a story that they had been broken into etc and so on….As this couple had lived next to me for nearly two years, and I thought they were a salt of the earth couple, I did not worry too much, until one day they said their friends were coming to stay for a week and they were all returning to the would give up the house…and the 3200 euros outstanding rent.!!!!oh he would put it into my bank account in the uk.

needless to say he did not….and as he and I knew I was helpless to do anything about it….as the house was actually empty for the six months there were no outstanding bills..however, I am so upset and they appeared such a nice couple, so a very expensive lesson.

then when I rang him at home in the uk, he has the cheek to accuse us of siphoning off his oil from the central heating, stealing a car battery….he said my husband had to have exchanged it…! WTF…and using a half a packet of his washing powder…oh well everyone has to learn a lesson…and i though I was a good judge of character!!! just shows how wrong one can be..

Kat Reply:

I don’t think anyone can judge people solely on sight or even doing a credit check. Life and people are unpredictable in any country, but in Greece probably more so because laws are rarely implemented and policing lax. Many feel they’ll get away with it.

There’s a fine line between freedom, democracy and lawlessness.

  Chris wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 14:10

Well as an American living in Greece since 1999. I feel every thing you say. I even spent 7 years on the Lovely island of Mykonos ( so many things to say about that but wont). I love your site, makes me feel not so alone. And from someone that is medically allergic to mold and mildew, i struggle every year, I own stock in Bleach ^^. Thanks for being there.

  Jessica wrote @ November 24th, 2011 at 23:51

I stopped reading after “Dikasteria”, incredible but I know it’s true.
Thanks for your great website

  Anika wrote @ April 24th, 2012 at 14:55

Thanks-a-mundo for the blog article. Really Cool.

  Alan wrote @ May 25th, 2012 at 08:27

We found our cat dead (peacefully) and don’t know how or where we can bury or dispose of it in a dignified way. We live in the Elliniko/Glyfada area. Can you help?

Kat Reply:

Hi, I apologize for the delay in my response to a sensitive and pressing question.

I’ve always been fearful of owning pets in Greece because of societal maltreatment, so no first-hand experience to offer. However, the kind and compassionate folks at Nine Lives and SPAZ will no doubt be able to advise. I’m sorry for your loss, and wish you all the best.

P.S. If you are willing to share your experience, I’d be happy to disseminate the information to help others.

  Michael wrote @ December 31st, 2012 at 08:39

Truly enjoy reading your blog. Your information is priceless, especially for us. We are a retired couple considering moving to Halkidiki to buy or rent a home. Having never lived in Greece, we are true neophytes and some of what we are learning form your postings especially on obtaining and keeping a home are giving us serious second thoughts. Do you think working through a reputable real estate broker and using a local attorney would help us avoid some of the more painful experiences you have had? We also plan on living only in a small rural/semi rural setting. What other advice could you proffer this retired couple? Thank you and Happy New Year 2013!

Kat Reply:

Two of the experiences described above involve reputable real estate agents, and a great majority of attorneys/lawyers often take money without delivering promised results unless he/she is a family friend who would lose face. Hiring a professional team does nothing to ensure landlords will tell the truth about their properties; many will say anything to rent or sell, especially in this economy and to non-suspecting foreigners who don’t know the country’s laws and language.

Many properties are never listed publicly or come up for sale/lease, as people hold onto good homes or find referrals through people they know personally and talk to current occupants who speak freely and honestly about their experience.

More information and advice are offered free in 300+ articles on this website.

All best.

  Skaz wrote @ January 3rd, 2014 at 04:50

Having heard the horror stories – and I never imagined they were so prevalent and egregious – do you have a short laundry list of tips for renting an apartment in Athens? Also, preferable locations such as the Plaka, Kolonaki, or more affordable and liveable areas.

Kat Reply:

At this time, I do not because compiling such an article, keeping it updated and fending off plagiarism would be no small feat. If I publish such advice in the future, it will be linked to the above post. Thanks for your inquiry.

  Debbie wrote @ March 14th, 2014 at 19:02

Just came across your website when looking for anything to do with landlord insurance in Greece. My husband and I are renting a house on Crete – we have a valid rental agreement that was arranged by a great agent. However, we have had problems with the landlord. What I’m trying to find out is if landlords in Greece are legally bound to have public liability insurance that will cover tenants in the event of an accident. I can’t find the answer to this online anywhere and am hoping that your wealth of experience means that you have the answer to this question :)

Best wishes, Debbie

Kat Reply:

The landlord is technically liable for whatever is stated in the agreement. All contracts are different, so I don’t know what yours says and if it’s been stamped by the tax office.

I say “technically” because I’ve seen many cases — not just in my own life but other people’s — where the contract clearly states that the landlord assumes liability for certain items and then refuses to honor it, blaming the tenants for being neglectful/irresponsible/etc. or daring tenants to sue them, which resolves nothing and takes years to settle. Accountability has always been rare in Greece, as my experience over 15 years illustrates, but it’s gotten worse since the crisis.

Plus with non-Greeks, landlords rarely face any resistance because of language, money, time and lack of knowledge about Greek laws. It’s easier and cheaper to move, even if tenants lose their deposit.

Insurance has little to nothing to do with liability in Greece. Most landlords/homeowners have no insurance or refuse to make a claim even if they do.

If your agent is Greek and not friends with the landlord, he/she might be able to mediate and smooth things over.

Thank you for your question, and I hope you find a solution.

  Gemmeroni wrote @ January 3rd, 2015 at 01:11

We will be moving to Greece in 10 years. We are currently working on the house where we will live, slowly fixing something each year. We are relatively handy for some things; others, we’ll have a tradesperson in to repair. Is there an equivalent to Home Depot in Greece?

Kat Reply:

There’s Praktiker and Leroy Merlin. But these stores aren’t everywhere in Greece, and quality and selection are limited and of lower quality in comparison to Home Depot due to population (fewer customers), crisis (few buyers), culture and, sorry to say, ignorance. For example:
— In Athens, despite being the biggest city, anything related to water requires a special trip to a store selling PVC, plumbing, etc. The stores I mentioned don’t have it.
— Real insulation is rare or non-existent, as Greeks insist on concrete/plaster walls, styrofoam is sold as “insulation” and double glazed windows aren’t properly installed.

Lots of repairmen are self-taught, and some don’t have credentials or actual expertise, so screening before hiring is important. There’s no better business bureau to mediate, and court cases take years and expense to resolve.

  Deni wrote @ February 20th, 2015 at 17:23

First of all I would like to say thank you for all your stories and advices for us ‘non-EU citizens’ in Greece. They were very helpful to me in several occasions.

I’ve been trying to find information on purchasing a house/apartment in Greece before consulting any lawyer and I was wandering if you have some tips. I have residence and working permit, the AFM number and all that. That would be my ‘first house/residence’ and I was wandering if I would be obliged to pay the VAT, since I’ve learned that Greeks do not pay it if it’s so-called ‘first house’. Further more, for what I know, is that the property should be declared in the income tax statement which I don’t have as I’m still unemployed. Would that be an issue? And if it is, could it be solved with having a dual ownership with my partner who is a Greek citizen? I would very much appreciate if you could help me with at least one of these issues.
Best wishes

Kat Reply:

It’s a shame that the first time I hear from you is when you want something more, even though this site has helped you on several occasions and I never knew.

Unfortunately, I have no first-hand advice on purchasing homes or property in Greece as I haven’t done it myself and never plan to do it. Friends who have done it either used a lawyer or were married/employed and had a huge downpayment and everything was done through a bank.


I know someone from greece who has been defamed along with two other brothers, one left in a psychiatric center in staten island handicapped for life from a car accident, but let me share the history.

Greek family of 5 kids move to us during the mid 70s, later the mom who does all the accounting takes off with a ex boyfriend, frames her husband as a obsessive jealous man using recordings of their phone conversations after she let him know what she did to make it al appear as if he was the reason she left him, she also took all his cash from safe deposit boxes in brooklyn and land resistors in Chios Greece.

While this woman is in Virginia with her ex boyfriend and her ex spouse in NY she never gets divorced, she instead keeps the daughter with her and continues with a new name of her ex, the daughter also changes her name, hiding their association with the father, before you know it they start taking the oldest sons down one by one, first they took the second oldest, they hit him with a van, did not kill him but the hit and run left him in a staten island hospital for life, that was good enough to take papers and claim the ex husband was insane, forgery of course, then they went after the oldest son, they feared he would get civilly married in greece because he already had two children and had not, they told his wife he cheated on her, asked her not to say anything then tricked girls they knew to come by the son’s property to make it appear true, before you knew it his wife or concubine finally left him, by the time she figured it out they even poisoned him with a cousin who was in the th scam to finagle property their grand parents left the father (his uncle) finally they put the oldest son out and into the streets!! yes, he sounded crazy, no one believed him and ended up homeless because the youngest sister continued to file false police reports claiming he was profile, police in virginia knew it was going on but could not reach the 3 oldest son because he as in the navy, but wait, he already had his eyes on a property in chios his younger sister and brother where left to share, after all the navy had no idea he held dual citizenship, you can’t according to military rules but he got a passport before giving up his green card for a us citizenship and joining the navy, this son helps his mother and step father move into the property he liked by the beach, they forged papers using his youngest brothers id, meanwhile back in virginia they stalked the younger brother in NY to find out if he had plans to return to greece, especially to marry anyone, as soon as they learned where he worked or who he was in contact with they would call and pretend they where concerned for him, that he was unstable, needed medication, asked everyone to not say anything because its private family stuff, the first girlfriend he got engaged to was jewish, they told her father he had aids, he told them they sounded crazy but understood their concern, either way he wanted nothing to do with the family, this took a while but he ended up divorced too while the greek psychopaths managed to have the fiancé sexual assaulted, thats right assaulted, the younger sister was instructed to get this creepy desperate guy with long hair to believe her brother’s fiancé wanted him to meet her at this party, meanwhile she told the fiancé of her brother that she will meet her there, asking her to dress sexy case its a girls slumber party, by the time she realised someone had invited her and a few other friends to a party the creep teared her hair out trying to get her undees off!!! , after the girl finally files charged the creep continues to stalk her begging her to drop them, finally the younger son of the greek family find the guy and turns him into the police by the hair, but the relationship was destroyed by then, he told the family he was sorry and did not feel the same, he wanted to forget everything, this was during the late 80s,

this younger brother was very hard to ping, he was getting too popular to defame, he was too trusted so by the time they find out where he ended up later in NY it took the family to organise another attempt around 1990, the younger brother having no clue the mother and siblings had a price on his head went to see the mom in Virginia after not speaking to the for several years, but he also was visiting the copyright office in DC to file several sound recordings, so while he seen his sister for 30 minutes, met her so called husband he was to stay at his moms, but he decided to take the greyhound bus back to NY to bring some documents to the library of congress, for copyrights, he figured by the time he does it will be a days trip, now he returns to NY and tried calling his mom in Virginia to tell her he decided to return to NY and return in a few days, just after christmas for new years, but he can’t reach his mom and the next day the NYPD called him if he was in VA and when he returned to NY, he explained and asked why, a hour later they told him his sister claimed he attacked her husband then her and the VA police had a man hunt out of him, they even asked two choppers to comb through the near by woods to find him, later only to find out the blood the sister used was menstrual to frame him, so they arrested her and told him about it, he was left shock since no one can explain why., the police asked him if the family was having disputes about anything, property, inheritances etc, because the sister is claiming she as abused but the last tie she seen her brother she was 14, sound sketchy, the greek son told the police only the parents hared discord in the past, they don’t speak, the mom took off and the dad claims she robbed him and the children, the police called him back again and told him they contacted his father and confirmed that its over a inheritance, they advised him to NOT speak to his sister again adding they understood its hard to grasp but told him his mother and her brothers are behind this, the son said its over a tiny property not worth that much but the police said if they continue to find 3rd party to defame you its worth something because outside the USA it will look like everything they say is true., they asked him if he wanted to file charges but he refused.

Later during 1994, the first girl who was sexually assaulted was contacted by the sister again, this time she convinced her she was meant to be with her brother, that she knew where he was working and should contact him, once they got ready to call she told the girl that she will eves drop 3 way and warned her that her brother is with some crazy girl, they must break of the relationship, the first fiancee immediately hung up the phone and told police, she had no idea where she was going and added that the way she got in touch with her as by claiming there was a death in the family to get the operator to leave a message on her un listed number voice machine., she had no way of reaching the ex aka youngest greek son to warn him about his sister though until later which i will share with you, read on because this case will be down in history!!!

now it 1994 still, the youngest son was engaged to a girl in San Diego, where the sister found out he was living through her mom because he told her the news, un aware or forgot they are trying to keep him from reaching a inheritance in greece out to destroy his life!!, the sister failed to get the ex fiancee to co operate so she called he police and told them she was a neighbour and can hear domestic violence taking place, the police showed up at the young greek sons place looking for the GREEK NAME, but he had changed it, no one but his fiancee knew this other then his mom, in fact the new fiancee could not even remember the greek name which is exactly what the judge said in a NY court when he changed it to justify the process.,he tell police who showed up this and they returned saying they traced the call back to ALEXANDRIA VA, to a A—K—, but the woman who called said her name was A— R—, not good, they asked him if he wanted to file charges, the son asked for what and the police said DEFAMATION and false police complaints to frame a relative, he said no and that his sister was a little kook on medication, (not true) the police returned again the next day asking again if he would consider filing charges advising him she should not get away and the FBI should know but he insisted to not file charges feeling sorry for her., police warned him that the sister was trying to obtain a copy of the police report and it sounds like she is building a false profile of him outside the us, possibly to deceive people in greece

Later his fiancee broke the news to him that his sister had been secretly in contact with her already paranoid father, and he will not change his mind and wants nothing to do with him, they tried to explain to him that the greek sister is saying things because of a inheritance but the father said no way, there was police reports., regardless of the evidence that there where no police complaints and the greek sons sister was lying from virginia to the father of his second fiancee in ohio while they where both in san diego the father, alike the first finance’s father wanted NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS GUY, on top of all this his changed name hinted to of sound JEWISH, and he is GERMAN, oh well., there went his second fiancee.

By no he left san diego with a girlfriend and her guy friend who knew his fiancee and the story, they all went back to NY together, this couple was invited to stay in the greek sons nY apartment, they late broke up while he was working at a TV studio, he also got this girl who decided to stay with him a job there, before you knew they where in love but he was not ready to say that again, he had a good reason too, within a year at this studio the owners requested he comes into their office, already dodge for ripping off engineers in the past from fear of competition and losing advertising clients they told the greek guy hey, you had a greek name, not very jewish, no? , but he said he had no idea what they where talking about hoping to ask police for advise, they gave him a piece of paper with his greek name and told him they understood people from his past are not respectful of the idea he was possibly making teshuva or simply changed his name to a jewish sounding one or they assumed it is to attack him, later the owners asked his gf who came from san diego with him to talk to these people who called the studio to tel them all this, it turned out it was his sister and his ny landlord who has attempted to vacate his apartment several times in the past illegally even bribing his roomates, this is another story but now he joined forces with his sister to defame him using false domestic violence history, as it is already the owners of the studio heard about his name but this time the ex girlfriend spoke to them and learned his sister was talking about her, saying he beat her up too after they all went to NY, including attacked her boyfriend to get him out of the picture, wow, so the girl from san diego went on explaining the greek sister mixed her name up and even claimed they where friends and she had to see the bruises on her body, this is a fantastic story, the owners figured it out but could not quite understand what was the reason behind it, in fact they wanted nothing to do with this greek guy now and told him to pack up because they feared it will interfere with their clients studio environment, so he did but they did not let him go that easy, they tried to rip off the greek guy on his way out too, they had him falsely arrested on accusations he left with gear that belonged to the studio, nothing new coming from them, after all they knew maddoff, the con artists of the century, atlas the owners father did, who had a FBI tracker on his ankle all the time, so what you think the studio did, they filed a false insurance claim, they got caught and paid a fine, meanwhile the police took the blame for claiming the greek guy admitted he stole 30k of gear, his lawyer who happened to also be his landlords lawyer did not tell him this but took advantage as well, with some piety atleast, he told the greek guy that he was tight with the jewish community and advised he faces the allegations his sister had made to sue her for defamation, how ever he had no idea the landlord had asked girls in the past to file complaints saying they never got their deposits for renting a apartment from small claims court, but they rented rooms and all dropped the complaints just to share the copies which did nothing, he also asked one girl to lie and say she was living in his apartment alone once, all these incidents where never at all mentioned to him by police who concluded after 5 times that the landlord was bribing people to try and help him vacate the apartment to re rent it at the market value, bribery, extortion and false police reports by woman th greek guy NEVER MET., as it is the police do keep a history and will diagnose someone in a hospitol for behaviour like this but they knew it was false., but asked…why why why…other then the apartment.

The greek guy again did not file a defamation complaint because he was told its expensive, not worth it and he would never see a dime.

So what do you think he does, he leaves NY for a while and rest one room in his apartment again, this time while in NY he was told after several months that if he returned he will be arrested because he failed to appear in court for something he had no idea was taking place, a woman claimed he verbally attacked her, intimidated her and so on., his landlord tell shim his things are out in the streets and the marshall tells him its impossible and he should come back to NY and sue the landlord for not respecting a proper proceeding to vacate the apartment with a just reason, how ever what is more interesting about this girl is she did not live at this apartment.

so while in canada this greek guy decides he had it, he was wondering if guiding back to greece to find out what this is about was worth it, he visits his grand mother who tells him all the above about his mother, he meet his step father who is living in a property he told him is his and let no one tell you other wise, he also finds out his mom’s family refuses to speak to the step father and did not since 1992 when they moved into the property renting the other half, basically the mother lived it up with boyfriend all these years with money that belonged to the children in their fathers inheritance but how??? is there any court or laws in greece to protect them from all this?

its now 1999 and almost 2000, he decided to go to france with a french girlfriend, this girl was simply nuts and so he left her for a very cool girlfriend from switzerland, but this girl turns out to be a antisemite so he left her for a anti war self proclaimed hippy austrian girl but this girl ended up been a anti-Semite in denial so he left her for a check girl but her brothers where obsessed about russian orthodox christianity and did not like the greek guys jewish sounding name so he finally returned to spain where he lived with 2 absolutely gorgeous swedish girls and had the time of his life, both in love with him and both home waiting for him all day long playing cards in the dark, but he left them because they also had a obsession with assians and the apartment was robbed because of indiscretion and so while he was in the south of france he finally meets the woman he ends up with having kids and all., but wait….. her family had him attacked before they met him!! atlas the parents.

it turns out the father of the french ex knows officials, so while he was staying allot with this french girl while living in barcelona with the swedes the parents asked her cousin to spy on the greek guy, he was going over asking hip with cannabis, he did not smoke, so then he added a few plants on his go’s balcony who was clueless, not to mention he took a picture of the greek guy and his gf on the balcony but when the greek guy snapped a few of him with his own camera the cousin got angry and did not come around for a few months, this was suspicious, and so the french girl decided to get a roomate and this butch dyke military type shows up in yuppie sweaters and a sweet voice, no sings of danger yet, after she leaves a deposit (check) she moved her stuff in with some skin head and told the greek guy they are from marsielle france, ok no problem., but as soon as she officially moved in, in fact 2 week later she had already built three arguments she continued to return to about her political opinions, people who live on RSA and so one in france picking on the greek guy she called a AMERICAN.
what do you think happens next, the french girl decides to let her know things wont work out and she can stay until the end of the month, but that made her furious!!!!! within a day her ex boyfriend who helped her move showed up with a gun to the greek guys head saying LEAVE HERE YOU DIRTY JEWS !!, THEY DONT WANT YOU HEAR YOU PEOPLE ARE DIRTY, before the greek guy can talk the gun was in his face with the and on the trigger, then he went to his ex go’s room.

meanwhile the french gf was out with her mom doing what she loves for SHOPPING, like most french in general today its as american as you can get in france, so he calls her and tells her what he did asking to call the police, ….. ok…now the nazi couple is already starting to leave the apartment and the french gf and her mom who the greek guy yet to meet show up, the nazis claim they did nothing or had any idea anything happened., no one had dispute according to them while trying to rush out of the place.
by now the greek guy called his ex in paris who’s father knows officials, they tell the chief of police who contacts the south of france, they told him the police was downstairs and he should let them in before the nazi flees, but they had just entered the apartment with his french go’s father who he also never let before,
HERE IS the most amazing news yet to be heard in france, soon to be heard in fact which is been investigating as i type by a journalist friend of mine, the father of this girl and police tell the greek guy
that its very anti american in france, the greek guy explains to his french gf what happened but her father shows his military ID and tells everyone its useless to file a police report, that the military can fallow this skinhead and make sure stye don’t do it again., hmmm., so the police tell the greek guy if he wants to file police report to go don town the next day, its the best he can do..ok…,o one will search for a gun he asked them but they looked at him as if they did not believe one single word and left smiling, by now the ex gf’s father contacts the greek guy from paris to tell him to let the police in because they are still DOWNSTAIRS, but he told them they left and its all good., really he said?, he insisted to talk in half hour.

The next half hour is or was one of the reasons the mayor and police chief where removed from their post, the ex gf’s father called to tell the greek guy that they investigated the matter and concluded that the family of the french girlfriend he is with set all this up from fear she will leave france, they advised to press charges in behalf of Israel and the jewish people but she insisted to stay with this girl assuming it was her cousin, he told them they had plans to go to spain so they said ok, its good he goes to spain because the family will not be able to do it there and they have evidence in paris if they do again, wanting him this was a hate crime.

The greek guy now thinks all is cool but what about this roomate returning to get her things, oh well sunday she does and his french gf’s father showed up to assure the girl moves and no skin head guy returns but another friend as she told everyone not he phone that day, on her way out with another meat head the father of the friend girl gives them a envelope with cash!! wow, , now the greek guy witnessed corruption, he told his gf her father paid them and heard from paris he was behind all this but she did not believe it, impossible she said, because they invited them to dinner that evenings., So he called his ex GFs dad telling this and he advised him to let this guy know he is fully aware they where behind this.

During the dinner his french GF’s dad tells the greek guy that it was better he did not fight this skin head or have him arrested, the greek guy tells him he was told from paris by a official that his daughter’s family was behind this attack, but he denied it was true, he said look around here its a villa with a swimming pool, why would anyone here be doing anything crazy, the greek guy tell shim the story about his wife’s nephew over their place with cannabis etc and he jumped out of his seat pointing his finger at his wife laughing in the background behind the greek guy, he said to the greek guy that this was the work of his wife’s family, that he liked him and said they don’t want the daughter leaving france, but the greek guy said he is going to spain, the father said ok spain is fine they have family there but he warned him they did it.

Sure enough before going to spain the french girl told her parents that they might get married, start a family, they are not sure, the french girls parents where so happy the next day they had a list of 200 people with out even telling the daughter but the greek guy warned them about a inheritance dispute and no one in the island he was born is co operating with helping him obtain papers to marry, lawyers are even involved, the french father said it sounds like forgery which makes sense if the siblings are trying to keep him from reaching the island., but no one knows the greek laws and one lawyer only suggested to check the land registry and there is no other way of telling., so what does the couple tell the french gfs parents, they said to tel the family they will marry religiously for now but not civilly until later., so they told everyone the couple was catholic which was not true., the greek guy however never knew this for a decade later.

the greek guy in love goes to spain, 2003, has place, a job, children but before his first son was even born 2004 – 2005 the in laws insisted to meet with their daughter to send money every month to pay for a day care school, this really bugged the greek guy, he never needed or asked for money and felt like a 3rd wheel in the marriage when they did this with out him present, in fact he believed his french spouse did not feel the same way about it either, she was colder, confused, maybe home sick, how ever every time he tried to speak to her about it she had a headache, was tired, excuses kept coming while she chatted on ichat to france all day every day as if she spent every sec in france and did not know when was in lovely Spain, the greek guy did finally get to speak to the in laws about this money who assured him it will never be mentioned, asked for or brought up to him but just so their grand children know it was shared as a gift between them., 400€ then 9 months later 1000€, hmmmm, this continued for 3 years and one day the cousin came to spain asking for concert tickets to massive attack from the greek guy who know the agency promoting it, so they went and the cousin found out about this money and warned him NOT TO TAKE IT, he told the greek guy that back in france the in laws have been lying to the family claiming he is living off of this money, the greek guy said he can prove he works and doe snot need it, in fact he can give it all back.

Meanwhile the in laws have been visiting spain every month if not twice to see the couple and grand children, by 2009 retired from the military they planned to invest in a property to LIVE near the couple and children, but they decided it was too expensive, so what do you think they did, they went to the agency the greek guy was renting from and bad mouthed him, then the neighbour who owned the store front of the building, wait it even went to the local police, you see, the told the rental agency the greek guy used false ids, you know 2009 was a beginning of a greek crisis so it sounded just believable right, the agency sent a letter to the greek guy which contained a new rental agreement, jacking he rent up by 400€ in his american name with passport number, wow, where did they get this, the agency told the greek guy on the phone that they knew it was him, he should not have to hide this jewish name, he said he had no idea what they are talking about and explained that he holds a greek passport and lives in the EU with out VISA requirements using it, he told the agency he will call the police but they said the police might arrest him with all his IDS but this is not true and defamation, he demanded who told them this and they said his in laws changed their minds about buying a property because of him and everyone is upset, but the greek guy spoke to a lawyer and police who told him he uses his NIE and if they don’t like it screw them, its legal, but…they said if several people come to the police saying they have a problem with him and don’t know his name it will be a black list in the future and he will not be able to rent or get a job in spain, which is what the police believed the in laws where doing, DEFAMATION!!!

its important to mention that the greek guys mom visited and met the in laws at the same time all this was going on and she concluded that they where racist as soon as she met them because the father in law of the greek guy walked out of the room while she was telling him she was born in tel aviv, even the greek guy had no idea!!! , but regardless of all this his mother failed too, was too tired or forgot to bring documents the greek guy asked to get married which finally started to show she was behind the defamation too, but the french girl now had to say something, her parents denied it all of course, they also claimed the greek guy may be..paranoid….why would they speak bad about him…
The greek guy was furious by now, people where manifesting at his job and he wanted a new long term contract, he won a case for a 24k a year contract and money he should of been paid while laid off, but he found out he was blacklisted from working in spain for misconduct on the job, his lawyer says it was all base don defamation and demanded it be dropped, he speaks to police about all this and one cop told him he knew the uncle of his father in law and will find out what the hell is going on, he tell him the uncle said his father in law is TONTO, wacko racist, catalan french, he said that he did not know what this THING (the greek guy) is, don’t help him or do anything for him., he told the cop the greek guy paid him 450€ to install a single electrical line but did not understand why his nephew insisted to charge him FULL PRICE with tax, a weeks work he did in a day., adding he acted hateful as if he wanted him to find someone to get rid of him saying he wont be with his daughter too long if he could help it but when he asked him what he did he said its best not to talk about it claiming he shared money with him and this greek never paid him back., even showed him that he transferred money to spain from france every month., the cop advises the greek guy to cut off the in laws but the daughter could not believe all this, so he tells his french spouse to go stay with her parents for the summer with the kids until she gets the story straight because they are not telling her knowing they are aware of crimes against him., so she does.

The in laws already renovated their property for children claiming they planned to sell it because they wanted to live in spain, but after several months during the summer of 2009 around sept they begged to send the kids to french school and insisted the couple lives near them before they where about to return to spain, with out any justification for their behaviour the greek guy demanded they cut the crap and explain, finally the father in law tells the greek guy on Skype that he rather invest in property in France so they live closer to them, adding that the reason he would do it is because he knew it will be impossible for him to find work, been he did not speak good french at all yet he convinced the couple this was what it was all about so they where very impressed and accepted the generous solution and started to look for property in france, also to mention the property will be in the daughter’s name, so the greek guy picked one and they got it, but after they moved in most of their things he was sceptical, he caught the neighbours ripping off his name form the mail box, he added a DVR security system with 8 cameras, then he captured videos of the neighbours throwing rolled cigarettes into the property yard, very strange, another video showed them taking his mail and putting it into a neighbour who just happened to buy the house across the street and worked for police national,

The greek now brings the videos to the police national guy but he does not really live there, they live in a military type housing project, private, he explained he invested in the property, because of the poor french it went no where., then the greek guy goes to open his first bank account to only find out the property was listed in his father in laws name., this sounded like the same nonsense that was going on in spain, DEFAMATION, finally the greek guy asked his spouse to talk to the neighbours who told her they did not want to get involved because they understood she left her husband for not working like all the greek do and he was not invited to the property but is there to see his kids she was furious finally about this, she told them its NOT TRUE AT ALL, so they planned to return to spain but lost so much money that they had to find a way to save again, so the greek guy rented rooms out in his apartment which he kept and his job where he arranged to work 7 days on and off, finally it was time to tell the racists in laws they decided to return to spain believing they may of regretted investing in the property and they did not want to bother them but they said they where very much bothered that the greek guy was not full time in france taking care of his children, but he explained he had to work but they argued that they invested in the property so he did not have to commit in a long term contract or full time job, blah blah blah so he said ok, he agreed to finally give up his job and apartment, he moved the rest of his things in during the summer of 1999 and while the children where in school septemebr 2011 the home burned down, yes, 15 minutes and the roof attic whatever was ashes, the fire dept and forensic team concluded the fire was started by the dryer vent into the attic from the laundry room, meanwhile the neighbour who’s house is also attached was in a dispute about his daughters arab boyfriend after they found a cannabis grow room in the attic, which was just burned in that area., the father in law is on a trip of course, so he was not around.

the next day they all meet at the property while staying at the in laws villa, the mayor of the town offers the couple a home to stay in but the father in laws says nope; they stay with him, then the insurance offers a home to the couple even with a pool but the father in law says nope, they stay with him, so they leave and while the daughter is at the police station filing details of what took place the father in law verbally attacked the greek guy in the kitchen, he tell him all the things he lost in the fire are worth no where near a round figure of money he sent to spain to share with his grand children, the greek guy was furious, he said he worked for all his things and supported his family too and rather give this money back to him to shut him up but he did not want it, so he asked him what he wants and the father in laws said take 3000€ and disappear now but the greek guy said no way., again the wife returns and her parents deny this as if the greek guy is crazy, how ever his handwriting on a note raised extra questions and this time he could not find answers leaving the young couple out in the streets looking for hotels to pay for 4 children and couple, costing 3500€ in a few weeks while by law they could of been housed according to the mayor and insurance policy but the in laws insisted they stayed with them., so time passes and they had visited the property and told the police officer neighbour they where in a hotel, he was furious and told the greek guy his mother in laws was bad mouthing him at town hall and did this to pressure him to leave so the daughter can return to stay with her, to interfere with the relationship., he threatened the in laws of the greek guy to stop it asap and advised the couple to build barriers of protection between them and outsiders because they are trying to interfere with their relationship which is a threat to the children’s well being., the town hall mayor hook up the couple with a emergancy place, they left the hotel and moved in.

later while at the property the greek guy over hears his father in law talking to insurance experts, only this time he hears his name over and over and over and the expert asking why, what did he do, no explanation he said ,if he did not help him he will find someone else who will but the expert said its too dangerous, he is the father of your grandchildren, your son in law but he insisted the greek guy is nothing, his daughter will forget him once he is out of france but the expert said impossible, he insisted the father in law was risking too many things and its dangerous, by the time he heard this he demanded to know what they where talking about in the back yard, the expert told the greek guy that his father in law was worried that because the house is in his name he will cause problems been a 3rd party, the house states its private, none rental and that only relatives of the owner live in it, the greek guy said bullocks, talk and he finally told the greek guy his in laws hate him, just the idea that he over heard this is ugly and advised him to beware that they plan to use the grand children in family court and lie claiming they have no access to see them, the greek guy said it was lying but the expert told him he was sorry to break the news to him that it was him who advised them, he knows the prosecutor, has taking his morracan son in law through these courts and warned that grad parents can lie with impunity in france, so the greek guy warned him he will speak to the police but he said he knows the police in the town and they do whatever the prosecutor says, he claimed the greek guy should only expect a couple thousands euros of losses and if that was not bad enough he warned that his father in law threatened to contact the siblings to help them cheat him out of his inheritance believing they where trying to make him out to look insane to justify touching his portion.

the greek guy now calls a bilingual lawyer, she asks him to write her a email about all this, the history etc, which he does, dated october 2011, then they meet her, and he finds out he can have his own expert like a renter, he does this and estimates 40k, concludes his father in law got greedy an tried to rip him off, meanwhile the lawyer advised he does not complain to the police about this but instead ask the in laws to attend mediation., which they agreed too., who knows why they really where doing it right?

So during january 2012 in a mediation recorded on a iPhone the in laws told the couple that they where trying to interfere with their relationship for over a decade but concealed it from their daughter because they had antisemitic motivations, the greek guy did not buy it, he said they knew he changed his name in the usa, that his siblings where liars defaming him, that he was working and never needed money from anyone but even after they tried to claim these things where reasons which added up their anger towards him it returned to the same point over and over, antisemitism, they are angry that their daughter wanted to convert to judaism, which is true, as well as studying religion in general (judaism, christianity and islam) but this is not entirely true, in fact it only proved they are crazy to of looked through the house and seen a fe books, nothing more, ridiculous the greek guy said, but later in the 2nd meeting it again because antisemitism, they admitted depicting jews while watching the grand children, they hit the kids too, oh wait the kids said they smoked cigs with chocolate and had a whole bag of it in their RV, finally it was clear they had hippy spanish friends they tried to hide that came over frequently, the greek guy said that was cool but why attack him with lies about money in the past or work when all of this was false, they said it again, they will NEVER CHANGE, staring at their daughter, bringing the topic back to religion!, but they also refused to comment about the skin head during 2002 with the gun, claiming it was false, they spoke to the guy, like buddies and it was impossible they said., regardless each and every allegation they had made including things they did to the children was over religion, including telling the children they prefer they are catholics, ok ok, the mediator ran out of reasons to protect them, why, no one has to, you see since they found out about this law giving grand parents the right to visitations with impunity they don’t care what they say., so the mediator told them to stop defaming their greek american son in law and return in 6 months to rebuild mutual respect., but they said they accepted the greek guy (today) if he signed a paper saying they can see the grandchildren but since this meeting was originally about their behaviour over a insurance policy the greek guy and their daughter suggested to wait until legally advised about that.

regardless, after the meeting the in laws of the greek guy refused to attend any meeting again, refused to see the grand children, the couple tried to see the daughters grad father before and after he died but they refused to let them unless they separated which was not going to happen; finally they told the grad parents in laws whatever in a email they will go to israel if they do not respect the offer in the mediation, adding it was recorded and so on but the reaction to this was astounding, they called the daughter crazy and claimed nothing she said was true; as if the mediation never happened.

While the greek guy applied for greek passports at the embasey in marsielle he got a phone call from his long lost brother in the navy after 30 years, he had no idea it was him, the person first said YOU WANT TO GO TO GREECE YEAH, then hung up, the greek guy told his father who confirmed it was his son, his father said he spoke to him every week and never believed he was involved in this scandal, but now he did, sounded like this brother was scared anyone will find out what he did in greece.

After returning from marsielle to the south part of france where the kids are, the greek guy hears from the first fiancee, wow you ok, your sister contacted your in laws, been so long we spoken, we both have 3 children, we are worried for you even my husband is in shock, look at the screen shots from what seems to be you remoter in law requesting to know if you had a history of violence because their daughter and HER children are locked up in side some apartment, like your a terorrist., This really ticked the greek guy, they reunited on Skype and he learned he was been defamed on Facebook too now and they sent some sort of court papers to people that translated from french saying THEY FINANCIALLY SUPPORTED THE GREEK GUY AND SO UN GREATFULL AS HE IS TO CALL HIS FATHE RIN LAW RACIST AND REFUSE TO LET HIM SEE THE GRAND CHILDREN, wow, its one thing the IMF and Germany left Greece bitter but here is a guy who claims he was called racist while using the race card to depict him as a greek in current affairs like the financial crisis., in black and white too, by the time this was out all over Facebook to everyone from his old job he finally got hard copies in the mail and 2 days to reply before a judgement was passed as default, meaning assumed guilty of this.

he got a lawyer and the case was dismissed on grounds of been filed incorrectly, how ever the greek guy was suspicious, he spoke to several lawyers in france who told him the case can be re opened within 2 years, it was best he left the country but the allegations have nothing to do with the grandchildren and are civil.
So he wanted to file a harassment case against his in laws knowing they will never stop, well he paid a lawyer in paris to do it but she lied to him, you see after she heard the evidence it was all about antisemitism and other racists xenophobe things she claimed she needed attestations from witnesses, claimed that in france its the best, she knew the greek guy could of not possibly knew anyone when he returned to france and wanted to leave after he settled the insurance policy, even if he found anyone its easily arguable to say that person did not exist before this fire and those who did only knew what the in laws told them already.,

but during the end of the year by october 2014 –> holy cow the greek guy found some people, his new neighbours, thats right, one neighbour across the hall, you see a neighbour upstairs was caught on his DVR inside the property, she was taking photos with her phone of his place, and the neighbour across the hall saw this woman a second time again and confronted her, she claimed she was friends with the greek guys wife, giving the impression she even had keys, but it was a lie and police complaints and attestations suddenly came out of everyone’s rear including the woman inside the flat who the greek guy tried to tell he was been defamed and she admitted to hearing things at the town hall.
but why??? why did she pretend in the past to other neighbours that she knew the greek guys wife, why claim they had religious barriers when they are not even religious…. well check this one out guys, regardless the greek guy sent copies to his lawyer in paris who absolutely IGNORED him and instead did not tell anyone that the case was re opened and a judge decided on it, instead he was visited by police demanding he brings his children to see their grand parents, he explained he had no idea but they claimed a judge decided this and where only fallowing orders.

Later, he gets another lawyer from the US embasey website, the guy wants 2k up front, told him its a civil matter, if all true the in laws are liable for unjustly prosecuting him and his wife., but while this process was on going he finds out the lawyer and prosecutor are in the news for criminal offences where he lives, that the police did a search and concluded that the prosecutor tipped this lawyer when they where coming to hide everything, during this very same period the judge had requested a psychological and social investigator, this woman came to see the greek guy, asked him to see his passports, looked at his work history, while it was clear everything is legit she reported that he sounded like he is bi polar when he spoke french, a muslim pretending to be a jew, no toys in the property and everything in th place revolves around him, lying on her report while not realising she was captured on video.
She then speaks to the spouse saying she is mentally abused, she can not defend herself and will not admit she is been beat up by this greek man who lives off the children’s allocation, admits he made 24k in spain but claims no one wants this money back then adding that the sister of the greek guy informed her he had a history of violence with woman but prefers to stay out of the case only saying that her father and brother are mentally ill to depict not just him but his whole family BUT HER insane, which sounds like a nice piece of paper to use in greece if a inheritance requires proof a relative is not mentally fit to have their portion right?

After this report, worried as hell his lawyer charges him another 2k for nothing, tell him its best he leaves the country but can not promise what they said on papers in France can be used to depict him abroad, the greek guy is now concerned how he will bring his sister to justice, lawyers in greece want 3500€ just to check the registry, he lost 500€ on a lawyer in chios who lied to him with photos of the books, he said his mother i a widow and has legal rights to live in a property his father built or his grand father gave a a dowry, but his father never died, its his step father that died, and she purchased it in her second husbands name from herself, nice…but he claims its hard to prove forgery took place.

So the greek guy finally goes back to the police outside his little town who tell him they have to accept a police report, he insisted they refused and so after sharing evidence they where shocked, they took a complaint from him, but then decided to take it from his wife, left out religion claiming its one’s opinion, then told them something they normally do not share with civilians which is that his in laws said he was a muslim in 2003 to prevent him from reaching spain with their daughter, as if she was so naive or kidnapped, but he explained to them he never would of imagined this because his father in law DROVE them to spain, but the police said the father in law continued to file complaints until they investigated him to know where he was in france which they could not figure out., but he told the greek guy he has to transfer the complaint to the local police in the town the in laws are where the prosecutor is and the rest of the corrupted mafia racists etc which sounds like nothing will happen and he will have to reach paris or get out of europe.

it turns out there was another child custody or visitation type case, father raped his son, the judge gave the father full rights while the mother was declared and diagnosed insane after what the court put her through, this was decided because the father was part of a cult circle of pedophiles in the same town, the only person who spoke out and tried to bring the child to his uncles place was framed as a kidnapper, the children described the events which proved he was brought to a safer place but the judge insisted the father had more cash like a american and their class war is more important then listening to this child cry while been raped in a video they claimed they looked at and saw nothing wrong, this is yet another case where the police national searched the property of the pedophile father and a judge who raped his son while they watched it yet the prosecutor warned everyone when the police where going to search the property.

Hope there are not too many typos and anyone who had the stomach to read all this who can help please do

  Jonathan levi wrote @ May 18th, 2015 at 01:34

I have to admit i read everything here and Greece sounds insane or simply too realistically human

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