Kat Reply:
May 21st, 2007 at 22:57

Glad I could help in any small way. I haven’t given mine up in 10 years and actually renewed mine in CA when I was last there. Was easy, quick and without hassle. However, it should be noted that I do not drive in Greece very often and have never been stopped. If you drive often and there is the possibility of being stopped, you need to swap.

Everyone I know who swapped for a Greek one said it was a huge hassle.

Kat Reply:
January 11th, 2008 at 22:09

A – Yes, but it is nothing like a U.S. license.

Kat Reply:
January 11th, 2008 at 22:10

The S – LOL! You kill me The amazing thing is the cost involved in hours of classes in theory and practical training, yet the reality of driving in Greece persists, and stats show it keeps getting worse. I think it’s partially because the license never needs to be renewed. Here’s some related commentary: “Sharing our space with others.”

Kat Reply:
June 9th, 2008 at 22:12

It’s really nice that you’re trying to help out your sister. There are a lot of people here who do not speak Greek very well, but would like to help themselves somehow and that’s one reason I started this site in English.

First of all, I’ve never found any written law that says we must absolutely swap, and I’ve inquired at the police station and transport authority, as well as looked through official documentation in Greek. So I’m not sure where the American Embassy is sourcing this information; I’ve found a number of inconsistencies in their information in other areas as well. A lot of people do not swap (including me in 11 years) because a CDL is worth more to me, and I never get pulled over here. Your sister should not feel bad about not swapping.

Second, she could go through the process of getting a Greek license the hard way, that is taking hours of theory classes and practical driving courses. They offer them in English, but the thing is she’d have to pay thousands of euros (not an exaggeration) to learn something she already knows how to do.

Last, the only way she can replace her CA driver’s license is to be in California and go to the DMV. Why? Because she is required to appear in person to give her thumbprint, sign her application and have her photo taken digitally.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#duplicateID_DL

If she has no plans to be in CA anytime soon, I’m not sure what can be done because the requirements are pretty strict for security reasons. You could call them and see if there are any ways around (though I doubt it because of the thumbprint and photo). The good news is she wouldn’t have to take any tests, and once she completes the process, she can leave CA and have someone send her the license when it arrives in the mail.

Should she not have an address in CA, either hers or a relative’s, she can actually apply for a duplicate or replacement driver’s license in another state where she or someone else does (i.e. you). Using NY as an example, she can request an abstract on letterhead from the CA DMV that verifies she did have a valid license there. With this abstract, she could apply with as little as her passport and SS card. I do not see anything about taking a thumbprint, and I do not know if they take photos digitally. You could inquire and see what can be done in her absence, though I suspect all proper agencies want applicants to appear in person.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/license.htm

Thank you for dropping in and contributing to the discussion

Kat Reply:
June 10th, 2008 at 21:43

Good comment and information. Re: Vasso’s sister. The photo is likely no problem, but the fingerprint is also required for CA. Her sister may or may not still have an address there, which is the reason I used NY as an example in case another DMV is necessary.

Kat Reply:
September 27th, 2008 at 23:14

I’ve only had a US license the entire time I’ve been here because: a) I value my CDL as a form of ID and return to the USA to drive often enough where I will not give it up; b) it states my organ donation wishes, which is something you cannot get with a Greek driver’s license or jumping through a number of legal hoops to have these wishes stated in Greek; and c) I rarely drive in Greece and have never been stopped by authorities. Public transport is often faster than driving, affordable, convenient and environmentally friendly, in spite of the various manners and odors I suffer to be green.

I assume you mean that you’re first getting Greek citizenship, since you cannot get a Greek passport without it; it doesn’t work in reverse.

I also hope you realize that getting Greek citizenship is not enough. If you read the requirements in the article, it says you must have a Greek tautotita (#7), plus an AFM (tax number) in order to pay the fees associated with converting to a Greek driver’s license (#9). In order to get an AFM from the eforia (tax office), you must have a permanent resident address in Greece. Plus #12 states you must present a printed tax statement from the eforia (ekkatharistiko) or a utility bill in your name from OTE, DEH, a cell phone company or EVDAP as proof you have an established and ongoing presence here in GR.

Everything I’m saying is already stated in the article above.

Kat Reply:
January 31st, 2009 at 20:15

N – If you’re a Greek citizen, you cannot convert without a license from an EU country or a non-EU country listed above. You are expected to get a Greek license by paying for hours of theoretical and practical lessons. Even if your Thai license were a full license, Thailand is not on the list and therefore you do not qualify.

Kat Reply:
February 8th, 2009 at 19:16

In your original comment, you said you had “no problem with bureaucratic mumbo jumbo,” so it seems you’ve changed your mind. What you do is up to you. Once you decide to not follow the rules, you are at the mercy of the law and its consequences, unless you have connections to bail you out.

If you are moving to Greece in one month and your Thai license doesn’t qualify you to get an IDP for almost a year, you’ll essentially be driving illegally for that year. Your Thai license entitles you to drive in Thailand, and it makes no difference if it’s in English; it is completely worthless in Greece, unless you have an IDP accompanying it. And if they find out you are living here and not a visitor, you are subject to fines and jail time. Good luck.

Kat Reply:
February 28th, 2009 at 19:48

I never heard back from you about what happened, but I wanted to clarify a few things so readers can understand what happened to you and why.

Hyphenated Greeks who are Greek citizens with Greek ID cards can try and swap using the process above as long as all of the other requirements are met. This is why your partner (Greek citizen) jumped through all those hoops to get her papers processed. Because it is a ‘swap,’ it is proper that they confiscate the U.S. license when giving your partner or her representative the Greek license. Swap implies there is an exchange. If it wasn’t a swap, or you don’t want to give up the U.S. license, your partner is required to complete and pay thousands of euros for both practical and theory classes, take exams, then get the appropriate certificates (same as Germany).

If you are a U.S. citizen (of no Greek origin), they would have allowed you to apply for a Greek residence permit. Because you are a U.S. citizen of Greek origin, the woman was correct in saying you cannot apply. Why? Because you are of Greek descent/origin and have the right to claim Greek citizenship, a Greek passport and a Greek ID, whether you want it or not. If you don’t have them, you must get them to achieve what you’re trying to do and then jump through the same hoops as your partner to get a Greek driver’s license.

The Embassy likely didn’t tell you all of this because they were uniformed or uninterested in helping you for whatever reason. This happens a lot, and many of these people come to this website for help.

Btw, what they require in Germany is basically what they require in Greece for all countries not on the swap list. If you staked your claim and applied for Greek citizenship, a Greek passport and Greek ID, it would still cost much less time and money than taking exams and road tests.

Kat Reply:
March 18th, 2009 at 23:34

Your situation is not unique; it’s the same as everyone else looking for a shortcut. Therefore, my answer is the same. There are no loopholes, and these rules and requirements exist for a reason. As an American abroad, I do whatever I can to follow rules when it comes to bureaucracy because breaking them makes me vulnerable to someone else’s control. It also reflects badly on my country and fellow citizens.

Kat Reply:
May 8th, 2009 at 23:00

Whether someone is required to convert to a Greek license depends on whether (s)he is a “normal resident” of Greece. If she is a normal resident of Greece and has a U.S. license, she will be obligated to convert to a Greek license.

Who is a “normal resident”? 1) A Greek citizen who lives in Greece for at least 6 months of the year; 2) a non-Greek EU citizen who lives in Greece for at least 6 months of the year; 3) a non-EU citizen with an expired visa, who has applied for a residence permit or is in possession of one. Many pass the “resident” mark after 90 days, and “residence” becomes evident upon signing a lease or an agreement for utilities (phone, electricity, etc.).

When should she apply? That depends on her nationality/citizenship. If she is a Greek citizen, she can convert the license right away. If she is a citizen of another EU member state, Liechtenstein, Norway or Iceland, she would apply sometime after 95 days. If she is a non-EU citizen, she needs to apply 185 days after her residence/work permit is issued.

If she is a non-EU citizen and doesn’t yet have an official residence/work permit, she can drive with the U.S. license and an International Driver’s Permit (IDP) (assuming they’re both valid and unexpired) from the day she arrived in Greece until the 186th day her permit was/is issued. I’ve attached the relevant law to the article; it’s in Greek.

Kat Reply:
May 12th, 2009 at 23:57

You need to request your driver’s abstract from the New York DMV, explain that you don’t live in New York any longer, have them forward it to the Greek Consulate in New York, which will send it to the Transport Ministry. I assume the easiest way to accomplish this would be to order one online (the NY DMV offers this option) or draft at least one letter detailing what you need and what you want accomplished, which you could instruct each institution to pass to the next. Alternately, if you have the option, I suppose you could have a relative or friend help.

The only way you can know if the ball didn’t get dropped is to check on things yourself, which is what most of us do with everything. I realize it isn’t foolproof, but that’s the way things are.

Kat Reply:
July 7th, 2009 at 21:54

I don’t see the urgency in this request, and I only email people if the subject is of a professional or sensitive nature, which is not the case. If you’re Greek, living in Greece for any amount of time or have even one Greek friend/relative, you should know that many people try to claim ignorance, are ignorant or deny the accuracy of information to avoid helping you, hoping you will go away. And sometimes, that’s not a bad thing because you can find more competent people elsewhere.

Your information or information you learned from this website?

You can confirm what I say at the KEP website, American Embassy in Athens website, in Greek and English newspapers and by searching the Κώδικας Οδικής Κυκλοφορίας at yme.gr. You can also go in person to KEP or call 1500 for help. I don’t and won’t quote these as sources because I wrote my article before any of these places had an article (or even a website) of their own, and I acquired my information through first-hand experience and from friends who shared documentation/knowledge with me.

I know I’m 100 percent right, and several of my friends were able to swap. The Government Gazette Directive is 1030B passed August 9, 2002, and it hasn’t changed since then. Best of luck.

Kat Reply:
January 22nd, 2010 at 18:36

This website helps both foreigners and Greek citizens like yourself (or are you a foreigner also?), so your comment is appreciated but inaccurate.

In any case, here’s the thing:
– “Normally resident” requires that Greek citizens live in Greece for more than 6 months of the year. You don’t.
– The Type B Permanent Resident Abroad certificate that exempts you from military duty requires you to live abroad for more than 6 months of the year. You do.

They may not go to your grandparents’ house to check if you’re “normally resident,” but a flag will be raised on your ‘abroad’ status as soon as you go on record as having an address in Greece. There may not be a common thread between the ministry of transport and ministry of defense, but activity on your AFM and tautotita can easily be traced. No one can say for sure how centralized or sophisticated things are because standards are always changing, and this is Greece so “results may vary.” That’s the problem with a system that isn’t black and white.

What you’re trying to do is have it both ways and get away with it. Therefore, you must live with the uncertainty and possible consequences as a result of your decision.

Kat Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 02:05

You can bring one with you, but keep in mind that non-EU citizens (Americans) can’t apply for a swap until 185 days after a residence permit is issued. Meaning, it could be a year before you’ll need to present the abstract. There is no stated limit (i.e., abstracts issued in the last 60 days) and authorities may or may not accept it as valid. That’s the problem with a “flexible,” unclear system.

The article says “driver’s abstract”, so you need a driver’s abstract. It shows:
* name, date of birth, mailing address of the driver;
* driver license class, endorsements, restrictions;
* current status and expiration date of the driver license;
* any suspensions or revocations of the driver license, accidents, moving violation convictions.

It’s much more than a letter. Some DMV locations allow drivers to order abstracts online.

Kat Reply:
May 24th, 2010 at 22:36

Many years ago, we could get away with doing that. But police have been making more checks as part of implementing the law, so there’s more pressure to convert to a Greek license.

I understand you wanting to keep your driver’s license from the USA, especially since you travel back there enough to use it for identity and driving purposes. However, if you live the majority of your year in Greece, the law says you need to convert. I’m flattered you want my advice on this matter, but I’m not in a position to encourage you to break the law. The decision needs to be yours.

Kat Reply:
June 19th, 2010 at 21:10

For the record, you have three complex questions, not one. I numbered them for clarity.

1. Just as tourists can drive regularly for 6 months, so can non-EU citizens in Greece with a permit sticker/card. As it says above, the law gives you 185 days from the day your permit is issued before it becomes necessary to apply for a Greek driver’s license.
2. As I understand, the car must be registered to you for a minimum number of months before it is brought into the country; it cannot belong to someone who lives outside Greece.
3. As I understand from the ministry of finance and tax office, a car with foreign plates can be driven up to 185 days before swapping for Greek plates.

Do not compare yourself as a resident — living in Greece more than 185 days a year and in possession of a residence permit — to a tourist who must prove he/she has his/her residence abroad and does not work in Greece.

Also be aware that bringing a foreign car into Greece will mean you need to pay custom fees and duties at the border or port.

You must contact the Greek tax office AND Greek customs office (DIPEAK) or Greek finance ministry (www.gsis.gr) to get information directly from them that applies to your special situation, or risk penalties and seizure of the vehicle; please do not consult a forum as there is too much to lose if you get the wrong advice. This also the reason I cannot assist you further.

Kat Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 17:20

Please see “Comments, Questions and Contacting Me” to learn why I do not offer personalized consultation.

As I say in the second paragraph, there are two elements:
a) Where your current license was issued determines what instructions you follow (you didn’t say, but I assume the United States);
b) Your citizenship determines when you apply.

Answers to your questions are in the article. I’ll quote directly from it:
– Do you need to continue to wait? In the section, “For certain non-EU licenses” under “When should I apply?”, it says: “Non-EU citizens should apply 185 days from the date their residence permit/card was issued.”
– How much is the total cost? In the same section under “Converting your license for a Greek one requires,” the costs are listed in #9 and #10. So that would be: 18 + (2×45) + 30 = 138 euros. The cost of passport photos and photocopies will depend on where you have them done, so I cannot estimate that cost.

All best.

Kat Reply:
December 28th, 2010 at 18:46

Israel is not on the list of countries that have the privilege of converting to or replacing the license with a Greek driver’s license. That means you must get a Greek driver’s license the normal way, which is to go to a Greek driving school and sign up and pay money to take lessons.

Kat Reply:
January 4th, 2011 at 01:12

Nearly all of your questions are already answered in the article above.

In the section that applies to you, it says in #5 that the driving record must be translated into Greek, and there’s a link to where it can be done.

Nothing is processed through the American embassy, only the Greek embassy/consulate nearest your former residence in the USA if the driving record needs to be requested this way. Since you have it, this doesn’t apply to you.

Never heard of any Dimarxeio processing a Greek driver’s license conversion. KEP and the transport ministry are listed by the YME as the only ones authorized to perform this task, as I say above.

Kat Reply:
January 6th, 2011 at 10:10

The only non-EU countries allowed to swap for a Greek driver’s license are listed in the section, “For certain non-EU driver’s licenses.” If it changes, the article will be updated. All best.

Kat Reply:
March 14th, 2011 at 22:44

Allowing former Soviet countries to convert to Greek driver’s licenses is a recent revision in the law, so it seems they opened the door rather than closed it. Why? Questioning government decisions and the reasons behind them is a fruitless endeavor.

Thank you also for taking the time to read almost 90 pages of the website until 3:00.

Kat Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:21

Read the section, “For certain non-EU driver’s licenses.”

Kat Reply:
December 9th, 2011 at 23:24

There are attorneys and ordinary citizens claiming to offer this type of service, but they are not necessarily competent or worth the money, which is why I learned to do everything myself and then turned that knowledge into a website to help everyone help themselves. Dozens of people found the instructions above to be more than sufficient — more complete than official websites — and you’re essentially asking me to slight my work by recommending someone.

Many Greeks would say you’re not worthy of being a citizen until you’ve served Greek military and/or done everyday bureaucracy yourself. Greek citizens also have KEP (listed above) to assist them, which non-Greeks like me don’t have the privilege of using for 90 percent of transactions.

Also be aware that checks and consequences have been stepped up, so if you are converting a U.S. license to a Greek license without being “normally resident” in Greece, somewhere along the way they’ll find out. I already see two ways that can happen.

Kat Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 23:19

Instructions for swapping a U.S. license for a Greek license are detailed above, based on official documentation I translated and real-life experience, not official websites.

How to get a Greek tax number (AFM) is also covered on this website, as is getting a Greek social security number (AMKA). The majority of people, though not everyone, need both.

Kat Reply:
May 20th, 2012 at 23:25

My information comes from the Sources listed — paper documentation I received from Ministry of Transportation office, first-hand experience from people who converted their license and the Greek version of the MOT website. I do not take information from the English version, which is incomplete and outdated. I always make the extra effort to do independent research because “official” websites in Greek and English-language news articles on Greece never match what happens in real life.

Should you go through the process and find something different, please come back and tell me. My readers give back to the website by sharing their experience, which keeps information fresh as amendments are passed and it helps me to help everyone.

I appreciate your kind words. All best.

Kat Reply:
June 14th, 2012 at 18:29

Read the article starting from section “For certain non-EU driver’s licenses.” Good luck.

Kat Reply:
August 4th, 2012 at 09:52

In the section, “For certain non-EU driver’s licenses,” New Zealand and UAE are not listed as countries that have the option to convert to a Greek license.

So, as it says in the same section, the only option is to go through the normal process and a link to that article is provided. Only you can decide if it’s worth the trouble and expense.

Kat Reply:
December 5th, 2013 at 15:04

This website is about Greece and converting to Greek licenses, not how Greek licenses are converted or swapped in other countries around the world.

In the U.S., the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) in the state you reside sets the rules. Most states only allow drivers with unexpired ‘Out-of-Country’ licenses to drive legally for 90 days, after which they must apply for a permit, submit documents, pass exams and/or convert. I don’t know where you live, so you need to do a simple Web search for the DMV in the state you live and follow whatever they advise.

Kat Reply:
May 12th, 2014 at 10:11

You didn’t provide enough info for me or anyone to answer your question, but the answer is in the article above.

If you have a license issued from another EU member state, see ‘When to apply’ in section ‘For licenses issued by EU/EEA member states.’

If you have a license issued by one of the non-EU countries listed in section ‘For certain non-EU driver’s licenses,’ see ‘When to apply.’

If you don’t have a license issued by an EU member state or one of the non-EU countries listed above, you must get a Greek driver’s license the normal way. See, “How to get a Greek driver’s license.”

Kat Reply:
August 9th, 2014 at 16:37

My answer assumes you are not normally resident in Greece, though you did not say.

You are permitted to drive in Greece as a tourist if you have an International Driving Permit (IDP). You can apply for one and get one rather easily (I’m told) via AA in NZ (click link for info and instructions).

Kat Reply:
August 22nd, 2014 at 10:04

1:
Although state services and records have become more synchronized in Greece, I highly doubt there’s a way for the DMV to verify that your license is in the hands of Greek authorities. It’s even more doubtful that Greek authorities have notified MA.

I encourage you to apply for renewal, especially if you still maintain a residence/address there (a requirement, btw). If you’re successful, don’t carry the MA license in Greece. If you’re stopped and police see you have a Greek and MA license, they’ll confiscate one on the spot. You’re “not allowed” to have both.

Thank you for your loyalty all these years. Wishing you all the best.

2:
My pleasure!

Every U.S. state has different laws governing driver’s licenses.

Glad it worked out, and hope to see you again

Kat Reply:
September 17th, 2014 at 18:55

Hi there,

Thanks for your question. Let me say from the start that I have no knowledge of boats or sailing in Greece. However, I gather from a Google search that what you need depends on what kind of boat you buy and how/where you plan to use it. Without knowing these details, I can only dispense general advice and point you to some links for further research.

From what I understand, there are different classifications and levels. Most countries require that a foreign license be accompanied by an International Certificate of Competence (ICC). For more info:
http://www.easysailing.gr/FAQ-index-myfaq-yes-id_cat-1.phtml
http://www.agni.gr/topics/General-Holiday-Questions/Greek-Boating-License.asp
https://www.cps-ecp.ca/public.asp?WCE=C=47|K=224990
http://www.humber.ca/sailing/2014-international-certificate-competence-international-yacht-training-course

On a related note, the type of boat you purchase will also have impact on taxes so check with the eforia to save yourself an unwanted surprise.

Kat Reply:
November 28th, 2014 at 11:32

I think it’s important to understand that Greece doesn’t operate on what makes sense or care what you think. It only matters what you can prove. This is the reason I keep copies of absolutely everything I think might matter later on.

While there are EU directives set forth as guidelines or minimums that member countries must follow, each country can override directives with their own laws or not follow them as Greece is notorious for doing, even after a court orders it. Further, the UK and Greece are still different countries with different laws around issuing licenses.

If you have paperwork related to the events you describe as proof, and you’re willing to put aside the UK mentality and ingratiate yourself to Greek authorities, you may be able to convince someone to help. Otherwise, I’m afraid I don’t have further advice.