94 Comments

I’ve heard that foreigners who have served in the military of an allied country are not required to serve in the Greek military. Do you know if this is true and if anybody has successfully skipped Greek military service with proof of military service in the US?

hello, I have one question, about the Greek army…the missions that the conscripts have, can be longer than 2 weeks ? ( for example, a mission at the borders or something like that ) and can they have the mobiles with them ? ( when can they use them ? ) and can they have 3 days off, or something ? in what conditions ? thank u a lot for answering, Tina

Hi, Kat, thanks for the informative site. I really appreciate all the work you’ve put into it!

Two questions:

1) Have you heard of any foreign-resident Greek males who’ve gotten drafted even with a ΤΥΠΟΥ ‘Β’ certificate (for foreign permanent residence) and NO stay beyond 6 months in a calendar year in Greece? (i.e. I’m wondering how likely it is, even though I supposedly have my “papers in order”, that I’m going to be drafted during a future visit [under 6 months] to Greece anyway?)

2) Do you know whether Greece still has a ban on g@ys in the military? (i.e. there was a presidential decree a few years ago that supposedly banned g@ys, but I’ve seen conflicting information about whether the ban is still in force because of conscripts’ attempts to “act g@y” in order to get out of military service; I’m a masculine g@y man who body-builds, so I’m sure they’d make me serve anyway!)

Background: I’m a Greek-American who recently got recorded as a Greek (via a U.S. consulate), got my ΤΥΠΟΥ ‘B’ certificate (also via consulate), and applied for my first Greek passport (also via consulate, I’m waiting for it to come back now). I’ve never lived in Greece (although I’ve been visiting my family there since childhood, roughly every other summer, and now I try to visit at least twice per year). My mother and my paternal grandparents were born in Greece, and all of my family is supposedly of Greek origin. I decided to claim my Greek citizenship for a Greek passport, to verify my right to live/work in the EU, because I’m a steward and the airline I work for has crew bases in Germany and the UK; with a Greek passport, I could be based there indefinitely. So, Greek citizenship does have a very real and practical benefit for me.

By TYPOU B’ in that last paragraph of my previous comment, I obviously meant ΤΥΠΟΥ Β’. Α σιμπλε ερρορ caused by switching between Greek and English keyboards ανδ λαζυ προοφρεαδινγ.

BTW, Kat, just from my own experience, I wanted to note that your frequent distinction between Greek citizenship and Greek origin didn’t seem to matter at all in my case. When Ι got my registration certificate (πιστοποιητικό εγγραφής) from my local town hall in Greece (in January 2008, after a U.S. consulate recorded my birth back in September 2007), the registrar had understandably put on my certificate that I have Greek nationality, but had earlier also noted that my father has Greek nationality, too (on my parents’ πιστοποιητικό οικογενειακής κατάστασης, which I got in May 2007), even though my dad and his parents never recorded his Greek nationality and he was born and has lived all his life in the U.S., like me. The only officially “Greek” act my dad has ever done was to marry my mother in Greece, but otherwise he was recorded nowhere in Greek records. So, thus, the weirdness and apparent inconsistencies in ease of registration have manifested once again.

In my case, it would appear that it was super easy and that the Chicago consulate has also been very nice to me (although the consular office at the embassy in DC was perceived to be a tinge rude by my sister). My family is from an island close to Turkey with a very large garrison… so maybe they saw me at the Chicago consulate… with more muscular mass than the average Greek male… and thought: “sign him up for the military, immediately!” Thus, through imagining this, now I have some paranoid fears of being drafted, even though my “papers are in order” and I don’t plan to spend more than 6 months in Greece in any one calendar year.

I look forward to your response to my two earlier questions, and thanks again for the awesome site!

Thank you for this information. I’d like to comment on the section Greek Society and the Military. I am thirty-nine years old and the son of Greek immigrants, born and raised in the U.S. From what I’ve heard, in the past some Greeks held lingering resentment and mistrust of the military because of the junta. Back in 1988, in Mytilini, I participated in the initial session of a summer study abroad program at the University of the Aegean for foreign college students who were of Greek descent. One of our field trips involved a visit to a Greek military base and a trip aboard a Greek combat ship. I remember one of the professors said (out of earshot of any officers, of course) to a small group of us students that the field trip was remarkable in that Greek academia was (still, at that time) somewhat apprehensive of the Greek military.

Very informative forum. I have also now found myself in the dilemma of dealing with the call to service in Greece.

I’m a 25 year old Canadian with a Greek mother, and have lived in both Greece and Canada from 1992 untill now. I managed to avoid getting Greek citizenship in the past so I would’nt have to go to the army, but now I got it so I could stay in the country for longer than the 3 month visa restriction.Mostly due to family obligations.

I just got my Taftotita and was written in the recruiting office a few days ago. I looked into getting the Certificate of Permanent Foreign Residence but I’m worried I won’t fill all the requirements. I’d hate to be a draft dodger but I don’t want to serve in Greece. I was actually hoping to join the Canadian army as a career and would’nt mind going in place of Greek service.

Does anyone know if that’s possible and how I could go about getting permission? I checked and dodging the Greek draft would wreck my chances of joining in Canada; as I am reqired to serve elsewhere. Any thoughts? Thanks.

What exactly is meant by Permanent Overseas Residents serving “3-6 months”? How come I cant find information on exactly how long a diaspora Greek would serve?

Thanks for getting back to me. I was’nt able to get the permanent foreign resident certificate for the reasons you mentioned. As far as the Greek embassy in Canada and recruiting office in Greece are concerned, I just have to serve like everyone else. I’ll be speaking to a lawyer soon to see what I can do but my options are slim.

I have’nt decided what to do yet but I’m a little disappointed with the whole situation.There really should be some more options for people not born in Greece and who don’t intend to live there. While I can understand a draft for people living in that country, I just can’t justify myself serving in a foreign military, in a language I can’t even write,on my own (Canadian) dollar, in a place I never intend to do more than come to and spend money in as a visitor. The whole thing seems a little backward(surprise!). Maybe Greece should try having a professional military where people get paid decently and have benefits, then maybe they would have more volunteers.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Kat,I appreciate the time you’ve spent answering my questions. I’ll post if something changes. Thanks, R

Greece does have a division of professional soldiers, and they’re paid quite decently. My friend CK is stationed in Samos and is now a high ranking officer with a generous salary, days off and reasonable responsibilities.

I sympathize with you and many others in your situation, but please understand that there are many who cannot get to Greece or the EU by any legal means. Unfortunately, the only thing that can be done is to be assigned somewhere nice and cushy if you have a connection. My friend V served on a small island near his home as mail boy and had weekends off. His time went by like a breeze.

Feel free to rant all you want. It’s been a pleasure getting to know you and thank you for sharing your stories.

Kat, I was wondering if your research within the Government Gazette publication had revealed exactly when the ban on g@ys (in the military) was lifted? I do NOT doubt your skills as a researcher or a writer and I really do appreciate all the work you have put into this site. Thanks for the answers!

I hope you won’t be offended, but I have my doubts about your answer concerning the ban. Let me explain why. Part of your answer to my question states, “there isn’t [a ban on g@ys anymore]. All of my g@y friends have served, and this has been true for the past 4-5 years”.

But, as late as March 2006, EOK (Ελληνική Ομοφυλοφιλική Κοινότητα, an Athens-based g@y rights group) was “demanding an end to what it call[ed] a ‘fascist’ regulation banning g@ys from the military” according to the following article at: http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/03/032906military.htm (link now broken)

So, I’m wondering if the ban actually was only lifted within the past 2 years, rather than 4-5 years ago as you imply, or perhaps the ban was not even lifted at all, and that there is simply a state of inconsistent enforcement (what?!? …inconsistent application of policy in Greece?!? …surprise! …surprise!), which may technically still be in force (again, it was a presidential decree in 2002 that supposedly and most recently instituted the ban on g@ys)?

Not that journalists or Wikipedia are free from error either, but Wikipedia also still identifies Greece as one of the nations that bans g@ys from its military, too, in a few of Widipedia’s articles.

So, when, according to the Government Gazette, was the ban lifted?

In other news, I got my first Greek passport in May (albeit after my photos were rejected once for bad lighting), and I used it for a visa-free visit to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, earlier this month in June! (Americans require a tourist visa to go to Brazil, Greeks do not)

Cool. I believe you. Thanks again. I’m considering serving as a “foreign permanent resident”, once I save up enough money to cover my bills/mortgage for 3-6 months (probably for 6, just to be safe), plus I’ll have to get a “military leave of absence” from work so that I don’t lose my job. But I think my airline is required by my labor contract to give me a military leave, so long as I have proof of my military orders; I imagine my recruiting office in Greece would give me a proof/letter of some sort, if I ask for one. I had back surgery for a ruptured disc about 3 years ago, but I hope that will not necessarily disqualify me, as I pretty much can function normally, with some precautions taken.

Dear Kat,

I just discovered your site and am amazed by the exhaustive nature of your research. Thank you for such a valuable research. I added you to my favourite on Technorati and also reviewed your site on StumbleUpon. I hope anyone who needs some answers can find your work here.

I just had a few comments I wanted to add for the benefit of any future readers. For comparison purposes, here is my situation.

I was born in Greece two Greek parents and was brought to the U.S. when I was hardly one year old. I lived here until the age of eight, at which time I returned to Greece and lived there for five years. At the age of thirteen, I returned to the United States. Since my return, I have visited Greece exactly once, in the fall of 2005, and stayed for three months.

At sixteen, I became a naturalized American citizen.

I have servied in the United States military for over a year.

Some time ago, I decided I wanted to live and work in Germany, and explored the option of moving there under a Greek passport. When I contacted the Greek consulate in New York, I came upon the military service barrier.

While I have the perfect right to a Greek passport, I cannot receive one until I’ve fulfilled my military duty. Because I was about to visit Germany for an extended stay, the man at the consulate was kind enough to give me a Greek passport which was valid for exactly one year.

“According the information I received from a professional high ranking soldier and official literature I was shown, previous military service done for a country allied with Greece does not totally exempt you from mandatory Greek military service, it only reduces the amount of time you need to serve, which ends up being between 3-6 months.”

This matches my experience. Having served in the American military does not exempt me from Greek military service, though it does significantly cut down my time; anywhere from three to six months.

“The Athens News also claims that any Greek male NOT in possession of a Greek passport and Greek ID are in no danger of being drafted, however I can name at least two dozen people (Australian, American, Canadian) who were drafted against their will and didn’t even have Greek citizenship; they were simply of Greek origin.”

When I last visited Greece in 2005, I entered with the American passport. I received a brief comment from the guy (”Ah, you were born here, eh?”) and that was all. I guess some Greeks find it interesting when they see an “Αμερικανάκι.”

I had no surprise visits while staying there. I even went to the police precinct to inquire about getting a Greek ID. I was rather paranoid I’d be “arrested” and thrown into the Army immediately, but those fears proved entirely unfounded. I simply explained my situation to the people there and they repeated what I had heard at the Greek consulate in New York: I must complete military service before I can apply for a national ID.

Now, what I have “heard” as far as stays in Greece are concerned, is that I can remain in the country for three months before I encounter any complications due to the military service. I have also “heard” that some people who stayed longer than that either had trouble at the airport when trying to exit the country or, worse yet, were even prevented from leaving and made to serve.

Because receiving definitive information concerning such things when one is dealing with the Greek system, I have not visited since and do not plan to, even though my girlfriend has been poking me to take her to Greece for a year now.

Oh, and here is a piece of anecdotal evidence which I found rather interesting.

I do not remember with whom exactly I had this exchange, but I dstinctly recall that while I was in Athens that fall of 2005, I was speaking with some official (it could have been someone at the prectinct when i visited, or it could have been when I was at the airport on my way back to the U.S.) and this person expressed surprise that no one “told me anything” regarding military service when I was entering the country. This, of course, implies, there is some kind of official “procedure” for people like me (i.e. an American born in Greece) but, like I said, I had no experience of the sort.

“Many non-EU citizens of Greek origin claim their right to Greek citizenship, then live and work in another EU country, where the threat of being drafted by the Greek military is removed.”

This certainly sounds like a viable option, though I unfortunatley can’t take advantage of it, since in order to receive a passport I must have served already. I can’t imagine who would be able to do that.

In any event, there might be some light at the end of the tunnel for anyone in my situation:

“The armed forces aims to be a completely professional military system, with mandatory military service reduced to 6 months or abolished completely by 2008. ”

My mother, who is more in touch with these happenings through her Greek friends than I am, had mentioned something similar. I had taken it as a rumour, but who knows. Perhaps by the time I am done with my studies here in New York, mandatory service will have been done away with once and for all.

These, then, have been my experiences. I hope someone finds them useful.

Sebastian

Regarding the service of g@ys in the military, I think that the Armed Forces are generally reluctant about recruiting g@y men. Even if they decide to keep you, you can still make a case for an exemption based on factors such as viability (an openly g@y man between an overwhelmingly hom0phobic community). If the army is not cooperative the ombudsman has supported minorities in the past.

Hello, i really enjoy your site. I am a Greek who was raised among foreigners in Greece and i find your take on Greece very honest. A little too honest for Greek standards maybe.

I just wanted to note that just like most other aspects of Greek law, the military service is a “rule” which can be bend or broken.

You mentioned connections and they are a good example of bending.

I have been performing research of my own because i will be drafted in a couple of years and i want to avoid it. I believe that it is quite possible to remain in a state of limbo by simply not going to the army and becoming “anypokatkos”. The police cannot really arrest you or force you to go in case you are accidentally discovered in a random check or if you ever have to go to a police dpt.

If you have a job that doesn’t require a certificate that you finished your tour or you are working as a freelance you may never have to go to the army.

It may be a good option for some people.

Dear Kat,

In reference to c), if you do find out anything relevant, I’d be very grateful if you did let me know. I am also keeping my eyes peeled to your website for any reference to the law change regarding mandatory active duty.

Along that same topic:

What’s funny is I checked the Wikipedia entry on conscription in Greece when I first discovered your site a few weeks ago, and in the very first paragraph was made mention of there being a possible doing away with mandatory military service. Apparently, the Greek government intends to move toward a fully professional military. However, the article went on to state, it is likely any changes would be delayed due to the general state of world affairs at the moment.

And now, wouldn’t you know it, I am looking at this same article and it has been updated to read, “As of 2008, Greece (Hellenic Republic) has mandatory military service…”

Great content with the updates thanks much as always kat, you are a personal hero to many of us looking to garnish critical insight into the socio-bureaucratic anamoly that is, Greece.

Unfortunately Im still having trouble comprehending military service time. more specfically the fluxation in service that seems to exist. Im currently 24 years of age and recently finished my BA in the States and plan on moving back and becoming a naturalized Greek citizen in the process and also have a father who is 70+. From what I’ve read and taken from the above article and subsequent comments my time will range from a minimum of 3 to 6 months ?

I recently watched a show catered to the diaspora on ERT (subsidized and operated by the govt) that claimed military service for naturalized Greeks was to only last 3 months……Can anyone fill my in on this personal limbo ? The consulate in Los Angeles refuses to talk to me until August the 4th concerning any citizenship questions (!) because the ‘αρμοδιος’ wont be in till then !

Some things will never change (η ελληνικη κουλτουρα)

hey kat,
A friend of mine had to leave Australia and join the army in Greece. I have no idea how long he would have to serve – do you have any idea about the length of time? I’m a little worried – what do they actually do when they are stuck fulfilling national service?

So much information, thank you.
I’m hoping it’s okay if I ask a few questions. My long-distance boyfriend has recently decided to serve, and I was wondering if the training schedule would differ very much because he is choosing to enlist, not being conscripted. He says he will be gone for one year, and from what I have read, it seems most of that would be training. Have I misunderstood, or is it different when you sign up for it?
Also, do you know how communication with family/friends works? Do those who serve in the military have the opportunity to send and receive letters, or even e-mail?
Last question(s), I promise! A person’s own skills and abilities, would they influence the area of the military that one would serve, either by choice or simply being placed in that area? For instance, my boyfriend has a degree in PC tech, so is it likely he would be doing computer work?
Thank you very much, again, for all this information. It is very much appreciated, as are any replies to my questions.

great info on Greek military! Do you know what happened to that legislation on expanding participation of women? i am doing a research on women in NATO military and Greece is definitely not one of the champs in this area. But do you know if anything is changing? Thanks a lot,
Greetings from NYC

Reply to Rin.

I am a greek citizen who had to serve to “glorious” greek army 4 years ago during the Athens Olympic Games. Currently I live and work in the US, but during my military service I had to depart from my american fiance back then for a little bit over a year, so allow me to have my input to your case scenario since I experienced it sometime ago.

First of all during the first month during basic training things are pretty tough, as they will not allow the use of cell phones as much as later on. Communication during that period of time can occur every day (if you can afford it) but for only a few minutes. Get prepared to hear a lot of bitching about the military environment from your loving one.

Then after the first 30-35 days he will be transfered to a base most probbaly near the greek-turkish borders. If he is lucky enough he will be sent to a greek Island like I did, but still that depends. Unfortunately that’s when really good connections are required. I was luckily placed at a military base in Lesbos, where I had the option of coming closer to my hometown 6 months later.

Despite that I decided to stay in Lesbos throughout my entire military service because the greek army gives you extra days off when you serve the army close to the borders. Those days proved to be more than usefule when I was able to take almost 25 days off towards the end to see my wife when she was going to visit me.

I was thinking about getting a special permit to come and visit her here in the US during that period of time, but the bureaucracy was way over what I could handle at the time so we decided here to come and see me. I can tell you that it’s extremely tough going through a relationship when being in the army, but it takes two to keep it together and only one to break it apart.

If I were to be asked to go again, I would probably go for no more than a month though. It was a boring at times yet hilarious environment ( as long as you have the same kind of people serving with you). For the most part I have great memories and usually get emotional when I go through some of the pictures during my military sevice.

The greek army is a small society which encompasses all the good and bad characteristics of the greek society in a restricted and highly conservative environment, which was the major factor that made me decide to stay or leave Greece at the time. Up till this day I am absolutely sure I made the right decision (don’t ever regret my decisions good or bad anyway).

Best of luck to you and your loving one.

Hi there,

This site has some good information for people entering the military. I am not sure if my case has been mentioned in the past, but if anyone can help i’d really appreciate it.

I’m 33 y.o. I live in Sydney Australia. my parents were born in Greece. I am a teacher in Sydney and I am interested in living in Greece. It has always been my dream to do this and have accepted the challenges that lay ahead. I want to run a business in Greece so i am assuming that although i have tertiary qualifications and interested in running a business i still have to serve the military regrdless. Is this correct?

Is there such a thing as a working visa?

Does anyone know anyone that has served the military based in Athens rather than the country’s borders like Lesvos?

If i claim my Greek is very poor will they take this into consideration in deciding where to send me?

There are sooo many more questions i’ll stick to these for now!!

Thanks!

I was wondering if i visit greece if it’s will be ok.Here is my status.I was born in greece 1968 and went back when i was 13. Whould i be safe just to visit for a few weeks.

You mentioned that Greek draft dodgers are allowed to visit Greece for up to 3 months a year without being conscripted.. is this still true? Thank you!

J & L – Yes. Articles are always updated with the latest information, but comments reflect whatever laws were in effect at the date of posting. You are also free to check with the Greek Embassy/Consulate nearest you to verify information for your specific case.

Hello,
Do the Greek authorities check military obligation status at Eleftherios Venizelos. I’ve been in Greece over three years and am planning on going back to the US. Do you think I’ll have a problem at the airport? FYI I have both a Greek and US passport.Thanks,
Bill

Note from Kat: The answer to your question is in Sebastian’s comment above. Cheers and good luck.

So, I read the entire converstion above in detail, my conclusion is that there are laws but the enforcing of them in Greece are in limbo. You are just lucky if you get caught.

My situation is as follows: I am 31. I was born an raised in the US. Four years ago I met my wife and I’ve lived in Greece since. Last year I applied for and received a Greek passport. I also have a US passport. I did not encounter any problems in the application or receipt of the Greek passport. I have not completed my obligatory Greek military duty, and I wonder where I stand.

A couple of years ago on a beautiful Greek summer day I strolled in to the main “stratopedo” in my city center and I specifically asked the general there what I need to do for my military obligation. He asked me if I got my papers mailed to me. I replied, no. He said, “Entaxi, perna avrio kai bikes”. I obviously never went back. My next step was giving a ring to my lawyer who said, if no paper was sent to you then you have no problem, and you have no problem until you recieve an invitation.

Even after all this I discuss, over Frappe, over pastichio, over metaxa, this enigmatic situation. Being used to a “functional” system, as in the US, leads to me to have worries. However, I really do believe that, we shouldn’t stress. None of us will probably have a problem unless we run in to the guy, at the wrong place, and the wrong time, who has not had their frappe, metaxa or pastichio.

By no means do I tend to imply not to follow laws and act accordingly, this is just my take on things.

My specific problem is that I plan on leaving through Athens El. Benizelos, and I am wondering what their checks are? Do I have a chance of getting dragged in to the army there? What is their protocol? How do they check military obligation and when do they check?

Hi am 29 years old, born and raised in Canada. Both parents born in Greece. I am actually thinking of going to Greece to serve the 3-6 months required of me, and was wondering the necessary steps that I would need to take?

hello kat

great website, i am an american citizen of greek descent from my father’s side and have recently been interested in attending graduate school in athens. the school has told me that they are not issuing student visas at the time because of problems with greek authorities, but they said i can be issued a greek ID because of my origin, but i dont see how i can obtain that without citizenship, and therefore military service.

have you heard of this ID issuance before without citizenship, or have heard any alternative ways for me to attend school and work with out a student visa or greek citizenship?

thanks for the help, it was greatly appreciated. i contacted the consulate and am currently waiting for a reply. im sure that many of us all apprecieate the time and information that has gone into this website.

look out over there, ive been reading about the riots, and it seems things are getting a little nutty

Hello Kat,

I’m a Australian citizen of Greek descent (both parents born in Greece) currently living and holidaying in Greece and considering applying for Greek citizenship.

Regarding military service and given the vagaries and inconsistencies of Greek Law (in general …) I’m trying to understand if i’m still eligible for national service. I’m 45 years of age, and by that I mean i have celebrated my 45th birthday. Does that mean I’m now ineligible for military service? Or do i have to fully complete my 45th year and thereby become ineligible on my 46th birthday? As they say here “prepei na ta kleiseis ta 45″

Apologies for the confusing nature of my question, like everything else in Greece – baffling, and again apologies if this question has been posted before.

Cheers,
Toli

hi there!

first i wanted to say thank you – what a wonderful wealth of info

i wanted to post this comment on another article – but those comments were closed – so i figured i’d post it here

i am american born, to Greek parents
i visited Greece a few times, with my last visit in 2005
with my only American passport i was allowed to stay up to 90 days – however, i overstayed – and spent 4 months in Greece

i didn’t realize that if i wanted to stay longer than the 90 days i needed a visa – meaning, i knew this but figured i could get the visa stamp at the American embassy in Athens – i think it would be nice to mention that if you want a visa you must get it from your originating country

dang this box is too small – lol (sorry for babbling, but i hope you can edit/reorganize my comment – i do have some points to share)

anyway, my situation was this:
my Grandmother was ill at the time, so i went to be with her – i stayed with her and helped her back to health – on around the 70th day of my visit, i finally went to Athens to the American Embassy for that visa stamp (which i thought i could do) – they explained i needed to get this stamp for overstaying at the dimarxos of where i was living…. easy enough – i went back to the dimarxos and told him i needed a stamp to stay longer, he called the capital of the prefecture and they told him it costs around 340 euros (approx.) – whereas in USA a visa was about 70$ – so i figured forget it, i’ll just leave Greece before my 90 days… the final option the dimarxos gave me was to go to the hospital where my Grandmother was treated to get a “note from the doctor” stating she was there and that’s the reason for my overstaying…. – so i actually got a “doctor’s note” and officially stamped – no charge – and i carried it with me everywhere just in case…

the other option i was given was to join the military! lol – so yes that is a real thing – however, i wound up staying over 90 days, about 118 days total – so finally, i got to the airport to come back to the USA – the guy at the airport (in the booth – not sure what it’s called) looked at my passport and noticed i overstayed (on the start of the 4th month of my stay my mother came to visit me – and spent the last 3 weeks of my stay with me – and we left together to get back to the USA she with her Greek passport and me with my American) and then he looked at my mother and told us if i overstay again i might have to join the military – with a smile! lol – and he just let us through…. i thought it was odd – but was good – i did read somewere that if you are “caught” overstaying and you leave – they could hold you or make you pay a hefty fine before you can leave….

i hope that made sense as it’s late here and i’ve been on your site for a couple hours and had all these thoughts i wanted to post – and now just finally found a comment box to share some experiences

a good friend of mine lives in Athens, and he did his required military – he said he was simply placed in an office for 9 months and that was it… didn’t go into detail…. because of the time difference we rarely get to chat – he did mention that january of 2009 the military law changed – but he only stated that instead of the 12 months – it’s now 9 months…. i hope to post more on this as i’d like to live and work in Greece as a dual-citizen with USA

anyway enough of my ramblings, i hope you can sort this comment out and make sense of it – lol

i’ll post back more with more solid info – as most any info from Greece is “my friend told me” “i heard from…” etc…. hearsay… lol

thanks again for a fantastic site of info – i only hope to share more with you

thanks!

manoli

I was born in America and have been living in Athens for 2 and a half years. I enlisted after being here for a year, and they never called me. I did check around, and they sent the papers to the wrong police station. When trying to leave the country, I was stopped and unable to travel. I enlisted for this Feb. and picked up my service papers at the police station. Aren’t they supposed to find me? My question is since I’m foreign born, how long do I have to serve? Some people say that I’ll be there for 6 months; others at stratologia say that I have to go for 12 months. I’m a 32-year-old only child, with no mother (she passed away, bless her soul) and my father is retired; does that count for anything? I have a business that I can’t run since I can’t travel overseas and am unable to work when I’m in the service. The longer I am in the military, the more I suffer monetarily. Just the fact I could not go on my business trip cost me thousands of euros, a loss of clients and an additional 3 months waiting to enlist. I have no problem going, except that it destroys a business I made over the last 6 years. Sorry about the rant. So how long do I have to serve?

Also I’ve heard that going to air force would be more desired than the navy, and then the army. I’m enlisted with the army but I was thinking about transferring to the air force. Any comparisons would be appreciated, and is it possible to transfer at the stage that I’m at right now?

Thanks for having such a wonderful site..Keep up the good work, you are my only resource here in Greece. The US Embassy could care less about my situation.

Hi Kat

Perhaps with your inside knowledge you could help clear these questions up for me please?

To give you a little background, I’m half Greek – my father (Greek) and mother (English) and I have recently completed a DNA test with my father that establishes us as father & son – and therefore myself as having “Greek origin”

I’m a full time UK resident and onlt visit Greece a few times a year (a week here and there) to visit relatives.

I recently read this advise published on the web page of a prminent Athens lawyer:

“Many males of Greek origin are concerned that if they obtain the citizenship they will have to serve in the Greek Army. This is not the case if they retain their status as foreign residents”

Can you confirm if this is the case?

I have also read that it’s fine for me to come to Greece for up to 6 months without being obliged to due military service providing:

a) You register with the nearest recruitment office in Greece to the place you stay at during your visit

b) You apply for a certificate of foreign permenant residency from the Greek embassy in the foreign county of residence

What would happen if I DIDNT do a & b and went to Greece anyway?

I also believe that you HAVE to be able to speak Greek to be conscripted anyway – so what happens if you cant?

Any light you can shed on these questions would be greatfully recieved!

Hi Kat, thank you for your follow-up, and apologies for the delayed response. As it happens, I celebrated my 45th b’day in December, so I should be in the clear.

Like all things in Greece, it’s a grey area, subject to individual interpretation, and given to change without notice. However the law you quote is clear cut, and therefore gives me confidence in proceeding and lodging my papers. Thanks again.

Cheers,
Toli

Hi there, i read your post. My husband is greek citizen and we are living curently in ireland. He managed somehow to delay the army for one year, but i guess there will come a time when they have to call him. What if they send the letter calling him to the army to the address in greece? We won’t know when it will happen. And then he will be a army dodger?

He wants to have a career in ireland, but if in greece they will make him bad name, do you think his future career will blow up?

Your last reply to somebody you said, “…get further answers by calling or visiting…” i will get my husband to call .. maybe we solve something.

:/

thanks for posting ..

won’t serving in the greek army be less than 6 months .. i mean wont it be null?

Hi Kat
Wow, im so impressed – Finally a site that gives me detailed and practical information – greek govt website should have links to this website!!

And most greek businesses probably need your help in terms of setting up helpful web sites. Im South African – Greek and if you need any assistance with keeping this highly helpful information flowing, please do contact me.

I am dying to hear about the new changes to the law. Have you any new info? I just turned 35 in Nov. Thanks so much.

Hey Kat…thanks so much. The more I talk to people, the more I seem to know. But I have learned that there is not much I can do at this time without a connection. I’ll find out how long my service is after I go to Corinth, where they will tell me everything, hopefully. Your advice is very sound. For the same reasons you stated is why I like Greece, but everything with paperwork is really a pain. I’ll give you an update as soon as I get.

Angelo

I’m glad to have found this question and answer page. It’s nice to be a little bit informed about what my Fiance will be enduring. Ok, so the questions I have are-

Is it possible that he will be able to come to the states for a visit while he is still within the year?(or 9 months)

If it is possible, how difficult with the process be, or even…how probable is it to be accepted?

If I was applying for dual citizenship US/Greek and got it, would I still have to enlist in the Greek military even if I was active duty US for 20 years?

I have a question. I am a dual citizen of Greece and the United States (just got my Greek Citizenship at the age of 26). I have lived in the United States my entire life and only travel to Greece in the summers for a couple of weeks vacation. I hold a US and Greek passport. I have not served in the Greek military and do not plan to as I do not plan to live in Greece for more than 6 mos per year. I know I can go through the process at the Greek Consulate to get a Pistopioitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou so I can enter and exit Greece w/o a problem but my question is this… What if I fly to Paris from the USA (enter Schengen Zone in France) connect on a flight to Athens and then do the same Athens-Paris-USA on the way back. I believe there is no passport control on intra Schengen flights, so how would the Greek authorities have the opportunity to ever check my passport or give me or any other Greek who hasn’t fulfilled their military obligation trouble entering and exiting the country as long as we are travelling within the Schengen zone? Am I missing something?

A question for Thaddius – how did you manage to get your Greek passport without first obtaining your army waiver?

My Greek Citizenship also came through recently, but the consulate wouldn’t allow me even to look at an application for the passport until *after* I applied for, and obtained, the Pistopoiitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou – for which I happened to qualify since I have never lived outside the US and have visited Greece at most for a few weeks at a time. Whatever one’s case may be, representatives at the two consulates I have worked with (Boston and Los Angeles) confirmed that appropriate army requirements must be met before a passport can be issued to males in the 19-45 age range.

On the other hand, I managed to obtain a tautotita in Greece while there on vacation, just after the citizenship was granted, but before I had submitted any army-related documentation to the authorities.

In response to Mike…I just applied for a passport and got one. Nothing additional was required. I did hire a lawyer who had worked with the consulate many times before to help me with my citizenship and passport application so maybe that helped as well. I am meeting with the stratologo to get my Pistopoiitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou next month but I already have the passport and pistopioitiko gennisis from the municipality in greece. I did have to swear that “I have not been declared as a draft evader or deserter.” which was technically true since I had just gotten my citizenship the day before I applied so the military had never even contacted me yet (it usually takes at least 6 months for them to start to try to contact you) so it is true that I have never been declared as a draft evader or deserter, etc.

One more question for Kat…what if I spent a couple of nights in Paris before and after my trip to Greece so as far the Greek authorities were concerned my final destination is Paris? If this would work should I use my US passport the whole way or my Greek passport? In any case, I am meeting with the stratologo to get the Pistopioitiko Monimou Katikou Exoterikou but I may be going to Greece for a week before this goes through so thought my alternate plan may be an option to avoid any trouble.

Hello there,and thanks for an informative site

My question is as follows:

An exemption from military service is granted if you apply for Greek Citizenship after the age of 35.Is this true?In working for the Dimosio(Greek public service) one of the exceptions for military service is that if you registered in the dimotologio after age 35,and obtained official Greek Citizenship by means of a passport,or taftotita,at 35 or over,then you do not serve? ,I remember reading it in TA NEA newspaer in their monday issue where they publish jobs in the public and private sectors.There was an article that day which dealt with exemptions of not serving in the army and one of them was the 35 years old and over rule.Your clarification and answer would be greatly appreciated

Just to update. I received my Pistopoiitiko Monimos Katikos Exoterikou (MKE) by showing the stratologo at the Greek Consulate in the USA the papers they asked for and then I took the Pistopoiitiko MKE to my Greek military recruiting office in Greece myself who then gave me a Pistopoiitiko Stratologikis Katastasis Typou B’ which says as long as I am a Monimos Katikos Exoterikou (i.e. don’t spend more than 6 months in Greece in a calendar year) then I am exempt from military service. Do you know if I ever have to renew this Typou B’ document or renew the Pistopoiitiko MKE every year or every time I visit Greece? I don’t think I do based on people I spoke to but how do they know I have stayed outside Greece for 6months. The only way is checking my passport stamps I guess?

Does one have to worry about serving in the Greek military if he’s over 50 years old?
Left Greece at 12 years old, have no Greek passport or ID card and live in the US.

I would like to know whether conscripts can use their mobile phones (with or without camera) and have access to the internet (e-mail, msn, facebook,…). If yes, how often? I want to stay in touch with a friend who will go to the army soon. Thanks a lot for your answer!

Hi thanks for providing us with so much info. I have just a question . I`m British , an ex soldier (12 years with the British Army), 45 years old, and married to a Greek. Our oldest son is 24 and has only a British passport, our marriage was carried out in Germany, our son born in Germany, and his Birth etc only registered in Germany and the UK. So as far as the Greek Govt knows, our son doesn`t exist. Is he in anyway liable to conscription in Greece unless he is stupid enough to mention to someone in authority that he is the son of a Greek mother?

It is, of course, a serious breach of international law for a citizen of another country to be detained for military service in a country whose nationality he does not possess. Having said that, we all know that Greece makes up the rules as it feels like, and certainly couldn’t give a f**k about international obligations, human rights law or anything much else.

It’s about time someone dragged them through the European courts over their behaviour… although they’re probably used to public humiliation in the courts by now.

thanks for this site, good info.
my background- born in greece, greek parents, left greece 1970 with parents to USA when i was two, i will be 43 in june 2010, have visited greece often 2-4 weeks of august vacation each year. i am moving to greece permanently soon.
Some questions:
1. how many months will i serve without paying it off?
2. how does it work, when should I appear to military, or do i wait for them to find me? Can I wait to appear, let’s say about dekay it 3 years i.e. until 45 years old?
3. my family is from Ikaria, if I serve there, does that shorten my term, in other words is Ikaria like Samos (strategic importance)?

Thank you,
G

Thank you so much for answering my questions, and most of all thank you for this website and your commitment to it.

Actually I’d like to rectify your claim that they don’t accommodate non english speakers. My cousin served in the Greek Army and could barely speak Greek and they accommodated him, as well as when he was in he met others that couldn’t speak it well. This was in Athens.

i am a 17 year old male, whose father is greek, but my mother english, and my parents divorced when i was age one, however i do have a greek passport. I have been living in the UK since the age of one. Do i have to do national service in greece although I havent lived in greece for more than eleven years?

Thank you so much for putting your effort and creating this website! It’s very very informative.

I have just 2 quick questions. If a Greek citizen obtains a ‘permanent resident abroad’ status, will it reduce their military service (i.e. 3-6 months)? And secondly, will such a status also defer their service until they decide to move to Greece/stay there for over 6 months a year ?

Follow-up question: The reason I’ve asked about the ‘permanent resident abroad’ status is because you have mentioned that you can get one by living for 11 years abroad or working for 7 years abroad. However, for example in the UK, according the UKBA (UK Border Agency) you can obtain a ‘permanent resident abroad’ certificate / card by living in the UK for a consecutive 5 years (regardless whether you were studying, working, being a pensioner etc.). You have also mentioned that such a ‘document’ would be issued by the Greek Consulate, however in the case of UK ‘permanent resident abroad’ status is granted by the UK Home Office. Therefore, I was wondering whether a ‘permanent resident abroad’ status issued by the British authorities (which seems to be easier to obtain, comparing to the Greek Consulate way) would also be recognised by the Greek authorities?

Thank you so much for your help!

I have read your posting from top to bottom, and understand that you get frustrated by those who post questions without trying to first read and understand what you have already written. But, I think that most who ask “already answered” questions are thinking that maybe their case is slightly different from the previously answered questions, and therefore, needs separate clarification. At least that’s how I feel, so here goes with my “slight variation on a previously answered question.”

My father was born in Greece. I am married, US citizen with 3 male children (ages 6, 7 and 8), and have always resided in the US. I believe that I meet all the qualifications and am thinking of filing for Greek citizenship for myself (and presumably for the kids as well). I have been to Greece about 5X, never more than one month at a time.

I am now 47 years old. If I file for citizenship now, am I fully exempt because I am over 45? Am I considered a draft evader? I am asking for your expertise for the person over 45 who files, who has never spent more than 6 months in Greece. Do I need to obtain this “resident abroad certificate” or does it no longer matter because I am over 45? I think I read that there are different types of passports based on whether military service has been served. Which one would I get and what are the implications of ending up with one v. another?

If I successfully obtain Greek citizenship for the children, what do I need to be doing to avoid them being draft evaders themselves? I know the law could change before this becomes necessary, but do I need to keep in mind to apply for the resident abroad certificate for them?. Is that something I do now or only when they get older? My wife (half Greek, but not applying for citizenship herself) thinks this would be “cool” for the kids to have EU citizenship, but she also worries about military service obligations that I could be getting them into, etc…

Any other thoughts to keep in mind before deciding whether to apply for citizenship for myself and the boys?

Thanks for all your great information.

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